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Thread: Mongol Ild?

  1. #1
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    Mongol Ild?

    I saw this sword in "The Deadliest Warrior" and took an instant liking to it. I'd never heard of an "ild" before, and google doesn't come back with much, unfortunately.

    It's a one or two-handed short saber, about 30"-34". The blade has a nice curve and comes to something of a hatchet point.

    Sorry I can't find a better picture than this, but does anyone know of a commercially-made sword which resembles it? I'd seriously consider a purchase.


    -Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep.
    -Those who turn their swords into plowshares often end up plowing the fields of those who did not.

  2. #2
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    I'd like to know what sources the folks at Deadliest Warrior consulted, for this sword.
    "Pray forget not to have your Broad-Sword, made according to my Pattern; for the Parliment has, and it will with your Postures in my wrestling-Book, cut the Small-Sword out of fashion" --Sir Thomas Parkyns, to Lord Thomas Manners, 1720


    "We begin with the Small-Sword, which we must allow to be the nearest Inlet to the relative Arts, and when we are upon the Back-Sword, their near Affinity will appear more clearly." --Captain John Godfrey, Treatise Upon the Useful Science of Defence, 1747

  3. #3
    Hmmm, if I recall correctly Ild in a generic term for sword in mongolian.

    Here is a link to a modern custom made one which is apparently based on various archeological finds.

    http://forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=740

    Edit: I'm really not sure about the round pommel on theirs though. Looks fishy, but I could be wrong.
    Last edited by Javan M.; 07-22-2010 at 04:13 PM.

  4. #4
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    http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/catalog.html

    13th century Chinese Imperial Court painting of Yuan Dynasty Emperor Kublai Khan's Mongol bodyguard with his Turko-Mongol saber (encased within an animal fur-skin scabbard cover, and partially covered by his archery bow-case), strapped to his waist.

    This type of saber was used by Mongol cavalry in the Yuan army and was the ancestor of the Ming and Qing dynasties' willow leaf and goosequill sabers (liuyedao and yanmaodao).

    Originating from Central Asia around the 8th century, these sabers were widely used by the Turkic peoples of the Central Asian region and by the Mongols. It was to become the ancestor of the saber styles of the Arab/Islamic world, Persia, India and Eastern Europe as well, spreading to these regions as a consequence of Mongol-initated wars, conquests and rule.


    A drawing of the typical Turko-Mongol saber used in the 13th-15th centuries
    Last edited by Ty N.; 07-22-2010 at 04:34 PM.

  5. #5
    Upon verifying in a Mongolian dictionary the word for sword is actually Ildu. Maybe Ild is an early form though, I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Javan M.; 07-22-2010 at 04:20 PM.

  6. #6
    I studied Central Asian archeology and because of my interest in swords, I had a special curiosity about Turkic and Mongol sabers of the early middle ages; yet iti is the first time I ever heard of this "ild". It doesn't look like the early Turko-Mongol sabers (which Ty gave detailed information about, with pictures, in his post), I must say it looks like a dao with some kind of european looking hilt. I suspect it is purely a creation of the prop department for sake of that show.
    Last edited by Sancar Ozer; 07-22-2010 at 07:58 PM.
    "The relationship between West(Occident) and East(Orient) is indeed an example of a relationship of power and domination. Orientalism is thus a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between the Orient and the Occident. It is a Western style of dominating, restructuring and building hegemony over the Orient.İt is an accepted grid for filtering through the Orient into Western consciousness, into the general culture."
    From "Orientalism" by Edward Said

  7. #7
    Ild in Mongolian is the generic term for choping/slashing type swords as opposed to the term "Selem" which refers to straight stabing swords. Ild does not refer to any specific type of sword and in fact, the polearm featured in deadliest warrior would also be refered to in Mongolian as a type of ild. Mongolian names of swords besides Ild or Selem are descriptive of the weapon and there are no specific names for weapons besides the general group they belong to. But to be honest all the Mongol weapons shown in deadliest warrior were either the wrong kind or was not the standard equipment of a Mongol warrior. The bow was the wrong kind of compound bow and they shot it the wrong way, the sword was closer to the chinese dao rather then the turco-mongolic sabre, the halbard was not a common weapon amongst Mongol cavalry as it was a Chinese weapon which saw limited use amongst the Mongols - lances were the standard weapon for Mongol heavy cavalry and the mace was a weapon only used by the poorer cavalrymen who could not afford better weapons.

  8. #8
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    Friar Giovanni DiPLano Carpini described Mongol arms in his fascinating first-hand account, The Story of the Mongols Whom We Call the Tartars:

    Everyone must have at least these weapons: two or three bows or at least one good one, and three large quivers filled with arrows, a battle-axe and ropes for dragging machines. The rich, however, have swords which are sharp at the tip and honed on only one edge and somewhat curved... Some Tartars have lances with a hook at the head with which they drag men from the saddle if they can.
    "Pray forget not to have your Broad-Sword, made according to my Pattern; for the Parliment has, and it will with your Postures in my wrestling-Book, cut the Small-Sword out of fashion" --Sir Thomas Parkyns, to Lord Thomas Manners, 1720


    "We begin with the Small-Sword, which we must allow to be the nearest Inlet to the relative Arts, and when we are upon the Back-Sword, their near Affinity will appear more clearly." --Captain John Godfrey, Treatise Upon the Useful Science of Defence, 1747

  9. #9
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    One person in another forum put up a picture which shows a remarkable similarity between the television "Ild" and an antique parang nabur:




    That style of blade (short, hatchet point, saber) is very attractive to me. Anyone know of anyone who sells something similar?
    -Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep.
    -Those who turn their swords into plowshares often end up plowing the fields of those who did not.

  10. #10
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    I DO watch the show. It is one of my guilty pleasures however I do not take it over seriously. Especially where the Steppe nomads were concerned. They vastly underrated their bow capabilities and didnt even have them shooting the style of bows they actually used. The Huns used a bow that was asymmetrical and used tempered bone points more often as not. Anyways sorry to hijack the thread and vent a bit. The sword they showed for the Mongols was probably very historically inaccurate, doesn't mean it wouldn't be an excellent custom project for someone and looked very functional. Like the hatchet like edge on it too.
    E TAN, E EPI TAS

  11. #11
    @ Stephen Renico: If you google Kilij, Shamshir or Tulwar you find a suprisingly high number of antique dealers selling the kind of swords you are looking for, but most of the genuine swords (as opposed to replicates) are VERY expensive.

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