Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Help identify old rusty blade

  1. #1

    Help identify old rusty blade

    Fifty years ago my father dug up an old blade in our backyard, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Terribly chipped, rusty and pitted. There was no hilt, and the tang appears to be broken off where there should be a pommel.

    A local antique dealer said he thought it was European, maybe early 1800s, because he didn't recognize the markings.

    Another person said it was Spanish, probably via Mexico, maybe taken by, and then from, an Indian, to end up in the Salt Lake valley.

    The dealer said it was only worth maybe $30, but I have grandkids now and would like to know (or invent) a credible story about it.

    Any help to identify this wonderful <g> item? (Pics attached, more available)




    Frank Adams
    frankadams1944@yahoo.com
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  2. #2
    It's a Spanish cavalry blade, and the date appears to say 1798 (?). I can't make out the other marks, but these often say things like Carlos IV on them. I can't find any pictures right now, but the hilt would have been a large bowl cut out of a single sheet, with a knuckle bow and quillons like a rapier. If Juan Perez stops by, he can probably help you out with a picture. This is a really neat find.

    Mike

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Metro D.C.
    Posts
    994
    Something like this Carlos III style?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

  4. #4
    This is really great info. Thanks so much.

    Here are some more detailed pics.

    Frank
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  5. #5
    And the last of the pics that I have.


    Now my question is, what should I do next? Nothing? Clean the rust off with naval jelly or something like that?


    Thanks again,

    Frank
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  6. #6
    I would say to wipe it off with an oiled rag and then leave it alone. The black oxidised iron should prevent further corrosion. As to that estimate of $30, I'd gladly pay that for it. I would gladly pay a bit more actually. It's a neat piece. We can't give value estimates on this forum, but if you were to put it on Ebay or another market place I would expect it to have a few interested bidders.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Metro D.C.
    Posts
    994
    ditto on what M. McWatters said. If you were to polish this blade you would destroy any historical interest or value this blade would ever possibly have.
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

  8. #8
    "Polishing" is something I would only have considered if it had no historical or monetary value. "Fixing" real antiques is a no-no that I learned "not to do" some time ago.

    So, other than very light oiling, what should I do? Is it possibly worthwhile to take it to "somebody" to find out more? Or is it likely only a mild curiousity item, of value only to me because my father found it when I was a kid?


    Frank

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    1,442
    Hello,

    It is a blade for a Spanish Dragoons' sword, for the so-called M1768 (although the model could be earlier). It looks a bit short, it may have lost the last quarter or so. About the markings: D for Dragones, Cs for Carlos (should be followed by IV in that date, as stated by our forumites), and the $ is an acceptance mark sometimes seen in blades from the Toledo Factory in those years (nothing to do with the US currency, of course!).

    All in all, a really interesting piece of history, especially regarding its find site. A bit too way to the North, but, well, Spanish frontier soldiers would embark quite often on daring expeditions in search of hostile indian parties... and, in fact, Utah was part of New Spain, altough never seriously colonized.

    If I were you, I would follow the recommendations above about preserving the item, and not trying to 'improve' its appearance. It tells us more things about the past the way it is.

    Best,
    Juan
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Juan J. Perez; 06-16-2011 at 03:26 AM. Reason: I forgot to add a picture of a Spanish Dragoons' sword!
    SI, SI
    NO, NON

  10. #10
    Thank you for the information. That helps understand much more, and is good background.

    In 1846-1847, the LDS (Mormon) pioneers were convinced by the US government to form a 500 man battalion (the "Mormon Battalion") to fight in the war against Mexico. ( I don't want to start anything about why the US wanted such a war.) They marched from Missouri to Mexico, then on to the Alta California Pacific coast, where they were discharged, and most then rejoined the other settlers in the Salt Lake valley. They performed guard and other ancillary duties, but never actually had any battles. Perhaps one of them picked up the sword (somehow) as a "souvenir", as soldiers often do, and brought it here.

    And thanks for the picture of the hilt. It is simple and elegant.

    Frank

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •