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Thread: Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt Resource Thread

  1. #1

    Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt Resource Thread

    It is safe to say that a number of us are attracted to swords with Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt construction. Whether it is their visual appeal, their feeling in-hand, or the way the can turn a common regulation pattern into something special, many collectors of Victorian era swords eventually want one to add to their collections. This thread will help members revisit the many wonderful conversations on Patent Tang / Paten Solid Hilt swords via links to past threads. I am sure I have missed many threads, so please feel free to add to the list!

    Help gentlemen, with a Crest mystery, please......
    New Acquisition - Wilkinson Patent Hilt to 10th Jats
    Phillips & Son / Phillips & Co. London
    Early patent hilt
    New Acquisition, just one. Have added PICTURES
    Patent Solid Hilt-revisited.
    British P1897 with WWI ANZAC connection
    Patent Hilt Pommel
    New Arrivals
    Patent Solid Hilt/Patent Tang Grip Materials
    JAAS Patent Tang Article?
    Wilkinson Marked for the 8th Hussars
    Pattern 1897 Infantry Officer's Sword with Patent Solid Hilt
    British Sword ID - REEVES & Co
    Wilkinson Patent Tang Experts........
    Wilkinson Patent solid hilts. A question
    Newbie asking advice/help!

  2. #2
    OldSwords.com Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt swords by item number and pattern:

    Pattern 1821 (aka Pattern 1822) Royal Artillery Officer's Sword:
    888320
    888321
    45361
    129399
    137371
    145459

    Pattern 1845/54 General & Staff Officer's Sword:
    119637

    Pattern 1821 Heavy Cavalry Officer's Sword:
    115971
    18401
    92087
    123523

    Pattern 1845 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    888522

    Pattern 1854 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    47668
    18755

    Pattern 1892 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    32497

    Pattern 1895 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    63280
    12532

    Pattern 1897 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    888437
    888139
    114498

    Pattern 1827 Rifle Officer's Sword:
    8096

    (Please note that a few swords are duplicated as they are listed multiple times at OldSwords.com under different item numbers. Also keep in mind that I may have missed some Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt swords if they are not labeled as such in the item description, so please add more items to the list if you know of any!)

  3. #3
    Jonathan,

    Interesting spread of numbers and patterns; does anyone have or know of any accessable Patent Solid Hilt swords that were produced in 1854? It would be very interesting to compare the etching and specific wording with later solid hilt swords.

    Gordon

  4. #4
    To clarify--the numbers listed are the OldSwords.com item ID numbers and not Wilkinson serial numbers.

  5. #5
    Thanks Jonathan, nmust admit some of the numbers had me fooled.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    OldSwords.com Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt swords by item number and pattern:

    Pattern 1821 (aka Pattern 1822) Royal Artillery Officer's Sword:
    888320
    888321
    45361
    129399
    137371
    145459

    Pattern 1845/54 General & Staff Officer's Sword:
    119637

    Pattern 1821 Heavy Cavalry Officer's Sword:
    115971
    18401
    92087
    123523

    Pattern 1845 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    888522

    Pattern 1854 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    47668
    18755

    Pattern 1892 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    32497

    Pattern 1895 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    63280
    12532

    Pattern 1897 Infantry Officer's Sword:
    888437
    888139
    114498

    Pattern 1827 Rifle Officer's Sword:
    8096

    (Please note that a few swords are duplicated as they are listed multiple times at OldSwords.com under different item numbers. Also keep in mind that I may have missed some Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt swords if they are not labeled as such in the item description, so please add more items to the list if you know of any!)
    Here is another one for you! Early 1854 sword with Patent Tang to Royal Horse Guards.
    Sorry about the picture but the photois small sized and was sent in to Wilkinson many moons ago with a query!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #7
    Smashing sword, Robert! Thank you for posting it. I have not seen an RHG solid hilt before.

  8. #8
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    I have had a search again through the Blade Rubs and have come up with a Patent Solid Hilt made by Wilkinsons for an Officer in the 10th Bengal Lancers. circa 1883 (ish)
    Excuse the quality of the picture but the rubs have got smudged etc over the years and many were not that that clear in the first place.

    One can make out in the close up of the name etching the words "Patent Solid Hilt' in a straight line.
    Enjoy!
    Robert
    PS perhaps a member has this sword?????

    PPS - The first line of wording is NOT 'By Appointment" which is in the scroll beneath the POW Feathers in the Rub.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 08-20-2011 at 01:26 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    Smashing sword, Robert! Thank you for posting it. I have not seen an RHG solid hilt before.
    I have details of another, this time to 2nd Life Guards from 1861. Sword Number 11066 sold to George A Curzon who served with the 2LG from 1860 to 1880.

  10. #10
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    It appears that after Wilkinsons bought Reeves in 1883/4, they Registered the design of the Patent Hilt/Tang. I have just found this scrap which has written on it:
    "FLAT SOLID PATENT TANG"
    Above this is a Registered mark which appears to be for the year 1884. Obvioulsy Reeve's Patent had long run out and one wonders why Wilkinsons did it. Perhaps to deter others, which really was a non starter in law.
    I am inclined to say it was done, along with other hilts that wer registered at the time (Scottish Field Officers etc) to boost the balance Sheet as all Patents/Registered Trade Marks etc were included as Assets in the Balance Sheet of the Company.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #11
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    Was this George Curzon related to N. Curzon, later Viceroy of India?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Rosenfeld View Post
    Was this George Curzon related to N. Curzon, later Viceroy of India?
    I don;t thinks so.
    The owner of the sword was....
    GEORGE AUGUSTUS CURZON, Esquire. Born July
    T2, 1836, being the eldest son of Edward Cecil Curzon,
    commonly known as the Honourable Edward Cecil Cur-
    zon, and his wife Amelia Sophia Charlotte, daughter of
    James Daniel ;
    Late Colonel in the Army, and Lieutenant-
    Colonel in the 2nd Life Guards ; served with the Rifle
    Brigade in the Indian Mutiny at Cawnpore, and at the siege
    and capture of Lucknow. Armorial bearings — He bears
    for Arms : Argent, on a bend sable, three popinjays or,
    collared gules ; and for his Crest, upon a wreath of the
    colours, a popinjay as in the arms; with the Motto, " Let
    Curzon holde what Curzon helde." Married, firstly. May
    7, 1867, Mary Florence, daughter of Morgan Treherne,
    Member of Parliament for Coventry (she died July 21,
    1868) ; and secondly. May 15, 1873, Mary Louisa Anne
    Frances Josephine Martha, dau. of William Ince Anderton
    of Euxton Hall, in the co. of Lancaster (she died Nov. 3,
    1889) ; and by his second marriage has Issue — Mary Cecil.

    While the man who would become the Viceroy of India was:
    George Nathaniel Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston, KG, GCSI, GCIE, PC (11 January 1859 – 20 March 1925) who was still at Oxford University and di not graduate until 1883.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilkinson-Latham View Post
    It appears that after Wilkinsons bought Reeves in 1883/4, they Registered the design of the Patent Hilt/Tang. I have just found this scrap which has written on it:
    "FLAT SOLID PATENT TANG"
    Above this is a Registered mark which appears to be for the year 1884. Obvioulsy Reeve's Patent had long run out and one wonders why Wilkinsons did it. Perhaps to deter others, which really was a non starter in law.
    I am inclined to say it was done, along with other hilts that wer registered at the time (Scottish Field Officers etc) to boost the balance Sheet as all Patents/Registered Trade Marks etc were included as Assets in the Balance Sheet of the Company.
    That is a great image, Robert!

  14. #14
    Yes indeed, wonderful information Robert and just a pity that we don't have a full blazon of arms for the mystery crest, it would answer a lot of questions.

  15. #15
    Articles that discuss Patent Tang / Patent Solid Hilt swords (not an exhaustive list, please feel free to add to it!):

    Byrne, Gordon. "Fighting Sword of a British Officer: Wilkinson Sword-India-Afghanistan-Australia." Caps & Flints Vol. 20 No. 5 June 2008: 179-207.

    Morgan, John. "The 1853 Pattern Cavalry Trooper's Sword." Classic Arms & Militaria September/October 2000: 26-31.

    Rimer, Graeme. "The Swords of John Jacob." Royal Armouries Yearbook No. 2 1997: 81-89.

    Wood, Stephen. "Swords for the Crimea: Some Scottish Officers' Swords Manufactured for Britain's War with Russia, 1854-56." The Journal of the Arms and Armour Society Vol. XVIII No. 3: 115-135.
    Last edited by J.G. Hopkins; 08-22-2011 at 08:21 AM.

  16. #16
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    Here is the last Patent Solid Hilt sword ever made by Wilkinsons. It was made in 2001 and was a special copy of the Australian Centenary Sword.

    It was made for the CEO of Pfizer who at that time owned Wilkinson sword Ltd. The grips were carved from Oak.
    the sword hung in the CEO's office.

    Excuse the rather bad photo as it was taken from the Summer 2001 issue of The Swordsman.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  17. #17
    I made that sword

    We hadn't made a patent tang sword for years and no one knew how to do it so we had to work it out again from scratch.

    It was not as straight forward as you'd expect.

  18. #18
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    Hi R. Lowe,

    Im very curious but how would much different would it have been than from making a regular tanged sword? I own one patent sword courtesy of a forum member which is illustrated on this patent thread and I see its a bit heavier and has a wider shoulder than the ordinary 1897.

    Thank you for the above

    Barry

  19. #19
    Hi Barry,

    Forging the tang of a patent tang sword was not hard. The difficulty was creating the correct shape of the patent tang.

    The visible side of the patent tang follows the shape of the grip scales and is relatively straightforward. What you don't see is the shape of the tang behind the grip scales.

    If you were to measure the grip, certainly at the top where it meets the pommel, you would find that it is actually larger than the shoulder of the blade.

    If the tang was the full width of the grip then you would need a slot in the guard larger than the shoulder of the blade to get it over the tang. Consequently the guard wouldn't sit on the blade properly.

    Consequently we had to create a shaped back to the tang to enable the guard to slide over the tang and still sit properly on the shoulder of the blade. We hadn't made a special blade for it, just forged the tang differently. That meant that the blade wasn't thickened up as much as the originals were just below the shoulder and consequent shape of the tang made the sword more of a 'cosmetic' patent tang than the full width originals. However, the tang was still much bigger and stronger than a conventional tang.

    This probably partially explains why the blade just below the shoulder on a patent tang sword is quite a bit larger than a conventionally tanged blade. On first impressions you'd think it was for strength, but in reality it also has a lot to do with the engineering of fitting the hilt together.

    Richard

  20. #20
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    Hi Richard,

    Many thanks for that. Quite interesting. I must say that Pfzer sword is very impressive. I am quite sure you had an enjoyable time making that.

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