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Thread: Swords & Sabers US Military Schools, Academies and Inistitutes.

  1. #51

    W. Point sword Athena helmet

    Hello, I'm new to the forum I found this thread and was curious to know if any other like examples of this eagle head epee have turned up for discusion. I recently was offered one to purchase as a gift for my son a cadet (picture attached). He likes antiques and I thought a sword of the MA would be a nice graduation gift. Idealy something from 1816 as he's class of 2016. From what I'm seeing this sword is more of an 1830's item and not USMA. Any photos of examples would be helpful. I have read what the regulations state for cadet swords, but the 1816 era seems vague. Did the cadets supply their own swords?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    I have a question re: the early West Point swords, described as eaglehead pommel epee.

    I have encountered both yellow and plated white examples. The yellow mounts do seem to fit those 1830s guideline but I am still not positive of these we find with the emblem of the Pallas Athena helmet and sword as shown in the 20th century coat of arms. The nickle plated examples I have encountered (and it may be the same one circulating) makes me wonder if it was later plated to be used in service later in life in white mounts.


    Are they West Point swords at all? Different langet decorations do come up with other traits of this pattern of American epee but all seem to be of a French style remade for the 1830s and produced in Solingen.

    click for bigger
    http://files.myopera.com/3sails/albu...ojanhelmet.jpg" width=300>

    Cheers

    Hotspur; there is also an excerpt of a discussion at one point about ssssssnake hilted eaglehead pommel special presentation swords for West Point
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    11,927
    Hi Raoul

    Welcome aboard


    I have still not retraced my way back to a paragraph about the eagles of the 1830s. Since you are looking at the earlier period, the closest descriptions I have come across were that the early swords were of one French fashion or another. I have found no confirmation as to a specific form. Were they epee? Broader bladed? Clamshell guard and a face in the pommel? I really just don't know. I know I do work at it just about monthly and the best early information so far has come from old texts.

    Good luck

    Hotspur; one of those lapses in documenting a text that will haunt me until finding it again

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    673

    Bone grip cadet sword.

    I think it about time to discuss the post Civil War, bone grip sword on this thread. These are discussed in gruesome detail here, especially on page 4. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...a-NCO-Patterns
    This example was made by Ames and retailed by Shannon, Miller & Crane. Compare it to the pictured cadet.
    It is unfortunate that these sword are often called American Civil War (ACW) NCO. This early example, ca 1870/80 could also have been carried by post ACW militia. But that young fellow in the picture is obviously a cadet. Note the small flange at the bottom of the hilt. This feature will disappear on later versions of this hilt pattern. By the way, you will find this hilt pattern on Horstmann marked sword on the above link.
    It is possible that Horstmann could have assembled it.
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