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Thread: Ancient Sword Identification

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joseph haynes View Post
    Also, as for the curvature of the sword, as to my knowledge it was influenced on China by the mongols.
    In the generic sense of "Mongols", there was influence. We see curved swords in Central Asia as early as the 8th century (7th perhaps? Not much earlier than that AFAIK.) There are some pre-Tang and Tang Chinese curved swords; the earlier ones might predate the use of curved swords by Turks/Mongols. But curved swords weren't common in China, until Song. Lots of trade between China and Central Asia, and influence flowed both ways. By just before the Mongol conquest of China, curved swords look more common in China than in the Mongol Empire.

    Where the Mongol conquest is possibly significant for Indochina is the conquest of Yunnan, which, with the Ming conquest of Yunnan after the fall of the Yuan, brought a lot more direct contact with China.

    But curved swords were used in southern India by the 6th century, so this is another possible influence on local swords such as the dha.

    As for northern Vietnamese swords, plenty of Chinese influence, but this is also much later.

    Quote Originally Posted by joseph haynes View Post
    Oh and is there a particular reason as to why the hilt on mine is resin filled withouth the tip that looks like its screwed on with the metal piece???
    Likely it had a pommel, and it fell off and wasn't replaced.
    "In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.

  2. #27
    Yeah white just shows the highest form usually born into priesthood, where as the red intertwines katriyas that have chosen to become brahman (priest) rather than born into it. We have to remember they used the caste alot of times the colors they wore is what determined the caste.
    Last edited by joseph haynes; 03-31-2012 at 11:05 AM.

  3. #28

    pommel for the sword or just resin filled

    I'm also curious what type of pommel would you think or maybe just resin filled. Here are a few more pics i think i haven't preposted them. Also, what would the tsuba be made out of. Would I be able to clean it up and with what safely. And what is the decorative items around the scabbard made out of. Sorry for all the ?s just curious I'd like to clean it up to where it looked new. Awesome family heirloom, would like to keep it looking good. and if there isn't a way, who could I possibly contact for restoration. Thanks in advance for any replies.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by joseph haynes View Post
    I'm also curious what type of pommel would you think or maybe just resin filled.
    For Vietnamese hilts, I don't know. For Indonesian horn hilts, I've seen metal plates and horn plates. Metal plates can be done two ways. First, the tang can go through the plate, and be peened to hold the plate. That is, the plate is basically a peen block. Sometimes, there will be a washer as well. This isn't likely to fall off. Otherwise, the plate can be very thin, perhaps with the edges folded, and then glued on. If the glue fails, off comes the cap. Also, if silver, they can get removed for their value.

    A horn plate could be glued on as a cap, as well. I've seen photos where this looks what is done, but I haven't handled one. Wood could be used as well. Again, if the glue fails, off it comes.

    A brass/bronze cap to match the decorated parts at the guard end of the grip would make sense. The line around the butt of the grip might be where the edge of such a pommel cap came to.

    Quote Originally Posted by joseph haynes View Post
    Also, what would the tsuba be made out of. Would I be able to clean it up and with what safely. And what is the decorative items around the scabbard made out of.
    Probably brass or bronze, for both tsuba and scabbard fittings. Japanese tsuba are deliberately patinated, so polishing them is a big no-no. Don't know about Vietnamese or other Indochinese tsuba - if these were normally polished, then clean-and-polish is a reasonable restoration.

    The whole cleaning, polishing, and restoring antiques thing is much discussed, and you might find useful information here using the search function. Some people will say "do as little as possible" - stop active rust, and stop it from falling apart, but remove no patina, don't make it look "new". OTOH, restoration can sometimes make a rather shabby piece into a spectacular thing. The extreme case of this is the polishing and remounting of old Japanese blades.
    "In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.

  5. #30
    wow any chance of findind a pommel for it and what do you mean by remounting of the blade exactly

  6. #31
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    Finding a pommel: very little chance. But you can have one made. An ornamented brass/bronze one to match the rest would be harder to do than a plain one. How about a plain silver one? Talk to a jeweler (professional or hobby), see what they think. Thin silver sheet, made into a cap to fit over the pommel up to the line. If you need to do anything with the resin fill, do it first (epoxy is the easy modern resin substitute).

    As for remounting, when this is done with Japanese blades, it's thorough. The blade (usually) gets polished - a significant amount of steel gets removed, so it can only be done so many times (and it's expensive), a new tsuka (handle) is made, a new scabbard is made (often both a "working" set of fittings, and a shirasaya for storage). Sometimes the old tusba, fuchi, kashira, menuki are kept and reused, and sometimes they are replaced. It's a multi-thousand dollar experience, and is a poor investment if the blade is not of a high standard. I mentioned this as an extreme alternative to the "leave it alone" school of antique care.
    "In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.

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