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Thread: Help please unknown Dagger ??????

  1. #1

    Help please unknown Dagger ??????

    I have dagger that I think is German or Austrian but not sure. The clam-shell guard on the scabbard looks like flames. I was thinking maybe fireman's dress dagger or forestry dress dagger. It marked on both sides of the blade E.&F. Horster and Horster logo on the other side. The saw tooth blade is 11 inches and 15 inches overall. I guess the shoulder hanger and portepee is original to it. That is how I got it from the son of WW2 Veteran that brought it home after the war. Any help would be appreciated. I will try and upload pictures. Thank you D.Ricks
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  2. #2

    More pictures

    I forgot to mention the grips are black horn which I find unusual.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Threads merged as all pics are of the same item. If you need to add more, just "Reply" to this thread and add your pictures!

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  4. #4
    Thanks John. Sorry about that. Dail

  5. #5
    interesting, the scabbard looks like it is designed to make the dagger look like a different sort of dagger when sheathed. It most resembles a hunting dagger. This website has pictures of official Nazi era daggers.

  6. #6
    I have checked that website and all others I could find with no luck. I sent pictures to Col. Johnson and he didn't know either but said he saw one years ago he thought. I think it may be Imperial Germany or possibly Austrian. Thanks Dail

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Lightbulb Feuerwehr Seitengewehr...

    Imperial Germany, Kingdom of Wuerttemberg Fire Officers' Seitengewehr, Dress model...Before 1918....The saw back on these non-military arms are in indication of Fire Dept issue or use...

    Dale
    Last edited by Dale Martin; 04-06-2012 at 11:03 PM. Reason: sp.

  8. #8
    did they use those to fight fires?

  9. #9
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    I think there were symbolic of their use, but during Imperial Times, the only use of saw back weapons by civilian agencies were the Fire Departments...I can look on a German Language Site and confirm this, but I cannot post a link, as it is members only, and they do not allow the pix to be copied...(They have posted the Eichorn Musterbuch from 1901)

    The Knot is definately Wuerttemberg--black and red are the colors they used in that era...

    Dale

  10. #10
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    OK: I cannot copy or link, but the Prussian Model is similar. Plain handle, "S" Guard, no hooves or other hunting motifs,+ Red and Black Knot, so my best guess is what I have previously stated above....The Prussians used a Faschinenmesser type item, but the other Kingdoms and Prinicpalities had their own designs...I do not think it is 3rd Reich, and the knot is definately as stated, and of Imperial era design....so along with the shoulder type hanger, I think this is what you have...BTW: Not often seen in the US!!

    Dale

  11. #11
    Thank you Dale. That is very informative. A couple questions. This was a WW2 Vet bring back from Germany so did they still use them that late? Is the black horn grips and clam shell on the scabbard instead of the dagger common practice? Thank you Dail

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Lightbulb WW 1 and WW 2 gear

    Dail: ususally this stuff was taken from the Germans by GI's and they did not know or care what it was...Some guy in Swabenland was a fireman, and they just took it when the rounded up the weapons, or it was traded for cigarettes!!

    I think most of t he WW 1 gear was actually brought to the US after WW 2...

    Dale

  13. #13
    Your right Dale,Ive bought quite a few items from GI'S that they got for a carton of cigarettes.Thanks again for all your help and everyone else with this dagger. Dail

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