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Thread: British sabre info/id required, please.

  1. #1

    Question British sabre info/id required, please.

    Hi all,

    Firstly, I hope someone can tell me what the following stamps that are on the ricasso of a George V British troopers (?) sabre that I bought recently, mean. They are firstly:

    8/94 (at a right angle to the spine)

    '99 (parrallel to and near the spine, on the edge of the ricasso, )

    7 78 (on the top of the spine)

    This blade is plain, slightly curved, fullered and 32 1/4" long. I hope that from this info that a pattern can be deduced. The reason for the question mark above, is that the blade appears to be a troopers blade but with an officers basket, would this mean it is an NCO's sword? I hope you can help, many thanks in advance!

    Regs
    Bernie

  2. #2
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    Hello Bernie
    The markings on the blade indicate:-
    '99 Pattern 1899 (Probably 1899 Pattern Cavalry Trooper)
    8/94 is an inspection mark and seem in complete contradiction of the Pattern satamp on the back edge ie 99

    7/78 on the other side of the spine means very little in official stamps I am afraid.

    A photograph would help or a description of the hilt.
    What makes you state it is GRV?

  3. #3
    Hi Robert,

    Many thanks for your reply and has requested, please see the attached pictures below. It was suggested to me that the 8/94 might be a regimental designation? Also to the right of the 8/94 part of the '99 i mentioned. I again look forward to your reply.

    Regs
    Bernie
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  4. #4
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    Staff Sergeant Pattern 1898.
    With GRV made 1910 - 1936. I would say by the marlings this was 1st World War period.

    Robert

  5. #5

    Thumbs up

    Hi Robert,

    Many thanks for that info, it is greatly appreciated. So the would the '99 be the manufacture date and the 8/94 be a regimental designation? Have you any thoughts on the 7 78 that is stamped on the spine?
    As you can see from the picture below that although the sword is slightly curved, the scabbard is straight, is this a mismatch? From the wear marks on the leather 'cushion' on the ricasso top, it would seem that the sword and scabbard have been together a while.

    Regs
    Bernie
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #6
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    I'm puzzled by this - if the sword is an 1898 pattern, it shouldn't have an August 1894 mark on the blade. Also, if the blade is curved, then this must pre-date the introduction of the straight 1892 pattern blade, thus dating it to 1845-92 (unless it's from a curved cavalry blade converted to a 1905 staff-sergeant's sword, then rehilted to the 1897 pattern, which would be rare to say the least). And to have all this bundled into a George V era hilt is very confusing!

    I cannot explain the 778 marking, though I note that that middle 7 is larger than the other characters. However, by 1894 the numerical designation of regiments had been changed in favour of county titles, and in any case whatever this sword is, it isn't one of the 78th Foot, which were a Highland regiment!

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  7. #7
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    Looks like the Sergeants 1889p rehilted. I would like to see a complete picture of the sword, curved blade? can have a slight curve and not be the 1899 cavalry blade as in the 1905p. Could also explain the "8" on the blade spine, the "77" a weapon number? Would like to see the pommel nut.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 04-18-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    Looks like the Sergeants 1889p rehilted.
    But surely the P1889 staff-sergeant's sword has a straight blade - isn't that that one of its defining characteristics?

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  9. #9
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    I read the mark in the 2nd Picture of the blade flat near the hilt as 8/01 which would make more sense, the hilt after all in GRV which again is odd as one would expect and ERVII?

    Oh the mysteries of sword collecting!!!!!!
    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 04-19-2012 at 03:41 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hart View Post
    But surely the P1889 staff-sergeant's sword has a straight blade - isn't that that one of its defining characteristics?

    John
    True John but I still think from the fuller etc it is a straight blade that may well have been curved or bent later.
    Mounting an earlier curbed blade would be difficult because of the tang lengths and size.

    A photo would clear this all up!!!

  11. #11
    Looks to me like that blade might have been in a fire. Its difficult to see from the photo but it looks like an 1897 blade to me and the blade appears to be discoloured where the curve starts.

  12. #12
    We need more photos of the sword and blade in better lighting in order to be of further help.

  13. #13
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    Sam Brown Scabbard looks straight!

  14. #14

    Thumbs up

    Hi all,

    Thanks for the interest, I hope the pictures below will help. Incidently, I did mention in an earlier post that the scabbard is straight.
    Although it might not be clear in the first picture, but the blade is in perfect condition with a curve in it. Incidently, the stamp on the ricasso is 8/94 and more pictures can be posted if required. It is a point that the two 7's on the spine are larger than the 8, by design or error?
    One last point, one the same side of the ricasso as 8/94 (not visible in picture) is stamped W I under a broad arrow, any thoughts about this?

    Many thanks
    Bernie
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by Bernie T; 04-21-2012 at 12:31 AM.

  15. #15
    Hi all,

    Sorry about this, but the WI under a Broad Arrow is on the opposite side of the ricasso to the 8/94 stamped side!

    Regs
    Bernie

  16. #16
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    How about this, it's a 1905p utilizing the 1899 cavalry blade (or earlier blade) and the blade has been ground to fit the scabbard.

  17. #17
    With the date 8/94, I'd say they used an even earlier blade as John stated.

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