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Thread: Need help identifying early persian sword

  1. #1

    Need help identifying early persian sword

    I need a little help identifying this bone handle persian sword. It measues about 20 inches long total and is marked on blade. Any help would be appreciated Thanks
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  2. #2
    Hi James.

    What an interesting sword you have there.
    The markings on the blade are a date of 1363 and a stylised name/monogram in the Ottoman Turkish style known as a 'Tughra': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tughra

    The date of 1363 if it's using the standard islamic calendar (Hijiri) would correspond to 1944 (Gregorian).
    If it's using the Turkish Rumi calendar I think it would be 1947.

    The hilt is made of horn.

    Hopefully on of our Turkish friends will be able to help with a translation of the Tughra and confirmation of which calendar.

    BTW: It's very nice !!
    Last edited by Gene Wilkinson; 08-05-2012 at 04:36 AM.

  3. #3
    This is a weird looking sword. S guard is reverse. I can say for sure that tihs has nothing to do with Ottoman arms and armour, and not a early Persian sword either. Everything about it look wrong and weird. Yes' there isa tuğra on it but anyone can
    draw a tuğra on a sword. General llok of the sword fits every orientalistic incorrect stereotype about "ıslamic scimitar"s. My guess is either a wallhanger which is made to be sold as a "scimitar" or some sort of theatre prop for 1001 Nights-type play or movie.
    "The relationship between West(Occident) and East(Orient) is indeed an example of a relationship of power and domination. Orientalism is thus a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between the Orient and the Occident. It is a Western style of dominating, restructuring and building hegemony over the Orient.İt is an accepted grid for filtering through the Orient into Western consciousness, into the general culture."
    From "Orientalism" by Edward Said

  4. #4
    HI Sancar,

    Any thoughts on a translation or which calendar might be applicable?
    I thought Scimitar as well. This would also fit with the date and the resurgance of interest in these themes because fo Hollywood etc.
    However, I also think it is reminicent of Falchions as well.
    Also it does seem well made.
    I'd like it!

    ATB
    Gene

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    It is a tourist piece meant and perhaps falls in to the category of 'Antique made yesterday'

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    It is a tourist piece meant and perhaps falls in to the category of 'Antique made yesterday'
    Hi David,

    Can you reference that?
    Have a look at picture 3. That's a hollow ground, hammer forged blade. The hilt is very well put together. I have no reason to doubt the 1940s date. If that was a tourist piece then it's still a very well made piece.
    It looks like it would handle well and although the 'S' guard seems the wrong way up, looks like it would be an effective weapon.

    I'd buy it if offered, and proudly add it to my collection.

    All the best
    Gene

  7. #7
    I was told that the blade was hollow ground by a knife and sword guy who looked at this piece. The blade has a very sharp edge on bottom and the top edge at the curve is fairly sharp also. Please let me know if more pictures are needed. Thanks

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    kuwait
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    Hello,

    Not much I can add, but there are bladesmiths in Turkey who still make swords and some are very fantasy oriented. This could be one.

  9. #9
    I don't think it is Turkish-made. Today's tourist market wallhangers are much crappier than this one in quality of craftmanship, but their shape is relatively more similar to a real kilij than this one.

    This one is very interesting. Because it looks like it is made by a craftman who had no idea what a kilij, saif or shamshir look like. Craftmanship is too decent for a wallhanger, yet form is almost a caricature. This is why I thought of a movie or theatre prop. I saw similar fantastical sahepd blades used in 40s and 50s "oriental" themed Hollywood movies.

    By the way, I wouldn't trust the date; I think it is copied form a picture or photo, together with tuğra. I doubt whoever copied it even knew that it was a date. Tuğra itself look decent enough at first look, but if you enlarge the picture in your computer, you'll notice the calligraphy is scratchy. I can't read old letters very well but I suspect it is just gibberish.

    Anyway, this is a fun blade to have.
    "The relationship between West(Occident) and East(Orient) is indeed an example of a relationship of power and domination. Orientalism is thus a style of thought based upon an ontological and epistemological distinction made between the Orient and the Occident. It is a Western style of dominating, restructuring and building hegemony over the Orient.İt is an accepted grid for filtering through the Orient into Western consciousness, into the general culture."
    From "Orientalism" by Edward Said

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fayetteville North Carolina
    Posts
    6,846
    Tourist does not mean low quality, Esp if it was made in the 1940s, I have a jambya that is a tourist piece and I like it very much

    I also think the Tughara is suppose to be Suleiman that Greats
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tu...agnificent.svg
    though admittedly reading Arabic style scripts and Tughara is not my strongest suit

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