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Thread: British infantry swords, m. 1796 and m. 1803

  1. #76
    Eric I think the link I posted yesterday at 11:51 PM and your NCO sword are good examples.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  2. #77
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    An old archive I had assembled up to 2006 or so. A newer comprehensive list of threads since then as close as an advanced search.
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9A...ew?usp=sharing

    So, right there, the order of 1796 speaking of twisted wire.

    My slotted hilt grip. David Critchley had determined the timeline for mine from the etch to be the 1780s from the officer's uniform.


    It was my first of many spadroons. Crithcley's 1796 article gone from the main page here.

    My old spadroon picture folder (not quite as nutz as my eagle folders)
    https://drive.google.com/folderview?...DQ&usp=sharing
    There are a number of 1796 and similar shown.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; I am sure some others have better books than I regarding their evolution
    Last edited by Glen C.; 08-17-2016 at 11:43 AM.

  3. #78
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    Hi Eric, what sticky surface treatment would you recommend? I have a 1796 in need of rewrapping and I've been thinking about applying some slow setting glue to the handle , but double sided tape also sounds interesting, more time for the wrapping
    BR/Tomas E

  4. #79
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    Thomas Didymus I have had better luck with the double sticky tape than anything on wire wrappings. Any thin soft surface seems to facilitate the wire wrapping sticky or not. I have had no great success but have had moderate sucess. My best example (m1832 General and Staff Officers sword) http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...Officers-sword, I reused original broken wire which was hard to rewrap smoothly, but is original. I have also used contact cement but is a tad messy but works fairly well. Regards Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  5. #80
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    Well, at least regarding the resurection of a 1796 grip I have no doubts
    It should be easier if the wire could be made to stick to the wood handle.
    By the way, I suppose a wooden sword grip from the Napoleonic time has shrunk as much as it ever will by now,
    and that it can be expected to maintain its dimensions if not exposed to moisture.
    Should one treat the wood with a modern varnish before re-wrapping it?
    BR/Tomas

  6. #81
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    Thomas, I guess I do not know the correct answer to that from a museum conservation perspective but I do not leave any of my swords to state of deterioration. I do not use varnish or polyurethane or any paint type product. I use tongue oil or linseed oil as it soaks in deep and does not seem to yellow with age. Many of the old swords here have spent years in someones basement and the wood is dry rotted to some extent making it porous and light. I coat them with tongue oil 4 or 5 times or until they quit soaking it up. It makes the wood more stable and stops the detearation. I then after dry use renaissance wax to coat and seal it. If there are no signs of rot or dry rot I just use renaissance wax. Have you read this thread? http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...p-Conservation
    Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  7. #82
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  8. #83
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    I do not own a 1803 pattern but have always thought it one of the most attractive sabers especially with a slotted hilt. That is a very beautiful piece Matt, Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  9. #84
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    Eric I have used Paraloid B-72 to stabilize worn holed and dry rotted grips. Not the easiest to use and takes some patience but it does allow one later to hold the sword by the grip without fear of damage. After several days of filling worm holes through the leather wrap the previously soft punky grip became solid. The material does not solidify quickly so it can soak into the wood. Clear and non yellowing and can be dyed or painted if desired.
    Museums use this in conservation and restoration.

    Matt your 1803 looks great with its ivory grip. The blade appears useful and not highly curved as some are.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 08-20-2016 at 06:26 AM.

  10. #85
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    Here are my best British 1796 girls. An officer, an NCO, and two others I don't know. I assume the fixed guards are all pre 1800? The older sword has lobes removed and ever who did it was quite a craftsman. The tang peen is old and well done. Not sure why someone would remove guard lobes. The cut down sword fairly common for broken swords but leather over steel scabbard not so much. Can't say much about them as I know little. Would love thoughts on lobeless flat blade with needle etch. Regards Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  11. #86
    What great pics! Now I'm inspired to get some good pics of all 4 of mine as well.
    And of course the long double edged one is very interesting....
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  12. #87
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    It does look double edged but is a back sword with a long false edge. Thanks for the NCO Morgan, I think it is a beaut. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  13. #88
    The spadroon with the bare wood grip looks like it could be an NCO sword as well. The quillion looks in good shape.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  14. #89
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    I like the one with the urn-form pommel (bare wood grip and shortened blade) a lot--of course, Morgan would know that! Some of them look like composites--period pieces--but that can be interesting and fun in itself. Nice group of swords!
    Last edited by T. Donoho; 08-24-2016 at 06:26 PM.
    Tom Donoho

  15. #90
    Ah yes, I didn't notice the blade had been shortened on that one. Definitely an NCO sword then.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan butler View Post
    Ah yes, I didn't notice the blade had been shortened on that one. Definitely an NCO sword then.
    That's a pretty short blade. Was it broken and repointed or reduced to that length for convenience in the field? I would not dismiss the latter since a blade of 20 inches or so can be a good fit and weight based on what I have handled.
    Tom Donoho

  17. #92
    Could be either, considering NCO's sometimes still carried spontoons during the Napoleonic Wars especially around the colors, shortening a sword makes sense. I've seen other NCO versions with shortened blades.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  18. #93
    A few more for the mix:

    1796 Officer's (by Prosser, blade Runkel), Sergeant's and Drummer's
    &
    Royal Scots variant (Prosser again) with the original brown/red scabbard

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    Pre regulation "1786" - so called, but probably just early 1790s militia
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    and a couple of "03s"

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  19. #94
    Glad to hear from "The Dean of the 1796 Spadroon!" It's been awhile...
    Maybe you could post your excellent article on the British 18th infantry officer sword that they used to have on this site.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  20. #95
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    David,

    Is it probable that the shortened blade would be for a drummer--is that how you have identified it here?

    Thanks.
    Tom Donoho

  21. #96
    Hi Morgan, Tom,

    Yes It is definitely for a drummer, the blade is forged at that length not cut down from a sgt. version. The length complies exactly with the measurements in Robson.

    They are quite rare, there was a bit of a battle over it when I sent it to auction a couple of years ago

    D

  22. #97
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    Ah, ha. Very good. Thanks for the information, David.

    Were drummers of adolescent age? If yes, I imagine the size of this sword was good for their size.

    The urn pommel would date this c. 1780, correct?
    Tom Donoho

  23. #98
    Typically I think they were about 15
    They were armed with the short spadroon and a brace of pistols. They advanced with the regimental Colours, and so surrounded by the regimental Colour sergeants - so probably as safe a place as you are going to get.

  24. #99
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    Thanks, David.
    Tom Donoho

  25. #100
    Here is a very nice 1796 Spadroon that went for very little on Ebay. While it is very unadorned like an NCO sword it has the silver grip-wire of an officer. I especially like those. Looks to me as though about 1/8th of an inch was shaved off the width of the blade. I might have bid had it been otherwise.
    Here's the link, I can't seem to upload any pictures to SFI anymore because everything exceeds their 100.0 KB limit. I never used to have these problems. Perhaps someone can PM me about it. I'm something of a luddite. Check out this worthy spadroon....
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Prus...vip=true&rt=nc
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

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