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Thread: US Naval Officers Swords 1872 to 1942

  1. #51
    I was under the impression that a right facing eagle on the pommel dated it to after Pearl Harbor and the blade appear to be polished stainless steel.All the etching seems to be correct with a white gilded shark skin handle.The sheath is leather with the dolphin motif.
    I wish had digital camera capabilities but I don't it looks similar to the sword already seen in this thread

  2. #52
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    A 1941 pattern sword pommel (see the Lilley-Ames type IV-b above.) will have the eagle facing toits right, or the observer's right. If the blade is marked 'stainless', it dates after 1960. Does a magnet stick to the scabbard with the sword removed?

  3. #53
    oh duh.its 1941 the eagle is facing left.it's not marked stainless and the inside of sheath is leather.just about every business in Newport is named Ralph's for some reason but no Ralph's Inc.

  4. #54
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    OK, the eagle facing to its left, and leather only scabbard is WWI.

  5. #55
    okay cool what do think the value is

  6. #56
    are you a collector

  7. #57
    I sent photos in a text my number is 2144340104

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Long View Post
    okay cool what do think the value is
    Daniel, Values cannot be disused on the forum. You may private message me. But without good pictures the is no way to know the condition.

  9. #59
    okay i'm sorry.I was a bottle of wine in and excited to finally find out some good information on it.I've had it for several years without success.Thanks for your expertise.Truthfully it's priceless to me.

  10. #60
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  11. #61
    Hi,
    I have been away from the forum for a while, but as I re-visit this thread I want to than all that have posted the in depth information provided here. After my first "mistake" with this type of sword, I recently purchased one that I believe is correct. I know that this is a common sword, but it is one that I could afford. I would appreciate any comments or observations. As the sword has not arrived yet I have included a link to the item that was listed on the popular auction site. http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-WWI-Era-N...vip=true&rt=nc . I am not quite sure how to condense a link as you folks have done, so I apologize for the lengthy info.
    Regards,
    Ken

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken A. View Post
    Hi,
    I have been away from the forum for a while, but as I re-visit this thread I want to than all that have posted the in depth information provided here. After my first "mistake" with this type of sword, I recently purchased one that I believe is correct. I know that this is a common sword, but it is one that I could afford. I would appreciate any comments or observations. As the sword has not arrived yet I have included a link to the item that was listed on the popular auction site. http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-WWI-Era-N...vip=true&rt=nc . I am not quite sure how to condense a link as you folks have done, so I apologize for the lengthy info.
    Regards,
    Ken
    Your sword appears to have belonged to Clayton Smith Clark who was commissioned from Annapolis on 1 June 1934. The sword was likely purchased about that time. He was medically retired as a Commander on 30 Sept 1947. He was born on 7 Dec 1910 in Lanesboro, Pennsylvania

  13. #63
    Hi Richard,

    Thank you for the response ind information, I sincerely appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking, how do you go about researching info. on the persons name inscribed on the sword
    Regards,
    Ken
    Last edited by Ken A.; 12-20-2015 at 06:15 PM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken A. View Post
    Hi Richard,

    Thank you for the response ind information, I sincerely appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking, how do you go about researching info. on the persons name inscribed on the sword
    Regards,
    Ken
    Ken,

    For Navy and Marine officers I look two places for a quick check. First I check the "Registers of the Commissioned Officers of the United States Navy
    and Marine Corps" for the probable years during which the officer might have served. You can find links to most of these official Navy lists at http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AMH/USN/Naval_Registers. I then check ancestry.com, a geneological data base which contains extensive military and other records on millions of individuals. (This is a subscription fee-for-service site.) In addition to these, you can always google the name - that often turns up interesting info as well.

    Dick

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken A. View Post
    Hi,
    I have been away from the forum for a while, but as I re-visit this thread I want to than all that have posted the in depth information provided here. After my first "mistake" with this type of sword, I recently purchased one that I believe is correct. I know that this is a common sword, but it is one that I could afford.
    Regards,
    Ken
    Ken, This is a nice example and you got it for a reasonable price. It was made by Karl Eickhorn, Solingen, Germany and obviously dates to the mid 1930's. Look at the pommel from above; is there a little screw under the eagle? The tarnish spots can be removed, they are not patena.

  16. #66
    Hi Richard,
    Thank you for sharing the information on research. It will be very helpful. I wasn't aware of the website you sited.

    Mr. Graham, thank for your reassuring comments. The sword has not arrived yet, but I will check the pommel when it arrives. Perhaps you could explain the safest why to remove the tarnish spots and some general cleaning suggestions. Should I try to repair the dents in the drag (if this is even possible) or leave it alone . Do you find the German imports to be of better quality than their USA counterparts?
    Best regards,
    Ken
    Last edited by Ken A.; 12-21-2015 at 07:15 PM. Reason: added content

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by T. Graham View Post
    Ken, This is a nice example and you got it for a reasonable price. It was made by Karl Eickhorn, Solingen, Germany and obviously dates to the mid 1930's. Look at the pommel from above; is there a little screw under the eagle? The tarnish spots can be removed, they are not patena.
    Hi Mr Graham,

    You were correct about the pommel. The sword arrived today. Its is in very nice condition. There a couple of tiny black spots on the engraving on the blade, otherwise the blade is perfect. The pommel does have a small screw located below the eagle ( in the ring of stars). The sword retains much of the gilding, but I would like to remove the tarnish without harming the gilding. I apologize for my question about quality regarding countries of manufacture. I realize now that this was a rather controversial question and therefore withdraw it. I look forward in hearing from you regarding the significance of the screw in the pommel and cleaning suggestions.

    I would like to wish you and all forum members a peaceful Christmas season.
    Best regards,
    KenName:  P8070105 (640x480).jpg
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    Last edited by Ken A.; 12-23-2015 at 10:37 PM.

  18. #68
    Hi,

    I wanted to share some photos of the mounted sword that I have put in my WWI display.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by Ken A.; 12-25-2015 at 01:27 PM.

  19. #69
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    A very good use of space Ken. I am always looking to squeeze another inch or two out of my wall space for a display.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by George Wheeler View Post
    A very good use of space Ken. I am always looking to squeeze another inch or two out of my wall space for a display.
    Hi George,
    Nice to hear from you and thank you for the comments. I wanted to ask if displaying the sword with the sword knot attached have any negative affect on the brass finish.

    I hope you had a nice Christmas holiday and are enjoying your weekend.
    Best regards,
    Ken

  21. #71
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    Ken,

    I have quite a few sword knots on swords and they have not suffered any problems. You might get a verdigris problem with a leather knot that gets moist but the bullion Officer knots don't have that issue. They also look nice on the swords.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by T. Graham View Post
    Ken, This is a nice example and you got it for a reasonable price. It was made by Karl Eickhorn, Solingen, Germany and obviously dates to the mid 1930's. Look at the pommel from above; is there a little screw under the eagle? The tarnish spots can be removed, they are not patena.
    Hi, You stimulated my curiosity when you asked about the pommel with the " little screw" below the eagle. I did not see this example in any of the other examples that you posted. Which makes me wonder what (if any) is the significance of this screw.

  23. #73
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    The Eickhorn pommel screw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken A. View Post
    Hi, You stimulated my curiosity when you asked about the pommel with the " little screw" below the eagle. I did not see this example in any of the other examples that you posted. Which makes me wonder what (if any) is the significance of this screw.
    That screw is found on swords made by Eickhorn and it will keep the pommel cap from unscrewing off. The USNs by Lilley-Ames do not have it and the pommels are often missing. That is deadly damage.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by T. Graham; 12-31-2015 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Added photos

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by T. Graham View Post
    That screw is found (I think) on swords made by Eickhorn and it will keep the pommel cap from unscrewing off. The USNs by Lilley-Ames do not have it and the pommels are often missing. That is deadly damage.
    Hi Mr. Graham,

    Thank you for reply and information. I was just looking at a book that I loaned from the library " German Swords and Sword Makers". It's impressive to see the long lineage of the Eickhorn family's involvement with swords.
    Best regards and Happy New Year!

  25. #75
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    In the beginning of the 20th Century the were actually four American sword makers. We all know The Ames Sword Co. and The M.C. Lilley Co., but The Pettibone Brothers MFG Co. and Henderson-Ames also made 1852/72 Naval Officers swords.

    Henderson-Ames (1893-1923) was major supplier to lodges and other fraternal groups.

    This is Henderson-Ames USN has some unique features. The tang is the through type, peened over the pommel cap. Before WWI, both Lilley and Ames both went with a threaded tang and nut covered with a 'bottle cap' pommel. The scabbard mountings have a decorative band and the blade has a unique etching pattern.

    There are likely 100 Lilley and Ames WWI period swords for every one of these.
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by T. Graham; 01-24-2016 at 04:34 PM.

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