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Thread: Gebruder Weyersberg Solingen

  1. #1

    Gebruder Weyersberg Solingen

    I have an old sword with the markings "Gebruder Weyersberg Solingen" surrounding the number "76" and a crown over the letter "W" on the Ricasso. The sword's total length is 34 7/8" or 88.6 cm. The length of the blade below the guard is 29 1/8" or 73.8 cm. The upper quillon is back-swept, the iron guard is rather large, and the wooden grip shows some damage. Most of the leather is missing from the grip with only remnants remaining. It is evident where the wire on the grip was located, but none remains.
    Since all of this is completely new to me, I apologize if I have not identified the parts correctly. If someone can help me identify the sword and tell me about when it was made, I would be very happy. Also, any indication of what such a sword's value might be would be greatly appreciated.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney L View Post
    I have an old sword with the markings "Gebruder Weyersberg Solingen" surrounding the number "76" and a crown over the letter "W" on the Ricasso. The sword's total length is 34 7/8" or 88.6 cm. The length of the blade below the guard is 29 1/8" or 73.8 cm. The upper quillon is back-swept, the iron guard is rather large, and the wooden grip shows some damage. Most of the leather is missing from the grip with only remnants remaining. It is evident where the wire on the grip was located, but none remains.
    Since all of this is completely new to me, I apologize if I have not identified the parts correctly. If someone can help me identify the sword and tell me about when it was made, I would be very happy. Also, any indication of what such a sword's value might be would be greatly appreciated.
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    What I believe you have is a Prussian 1852 Kavallerie-Degen, put together by Weyersberg's of Solingen (one of the great sword making families of Prussia's premier sword making centre) in 1876. The latter is shown by the Crown W = Wilhelm I of Prussia (1861 - 1888).

    The Preußischer M.1852 Kavallerie-Degen was in service between 1857 and 1889 as the standard issue sword for all Hussar,Ulan and Dragoon regiments in the Prussian Army, one of 4 armies that combined made up the forces of the German Empire (Prussian, Saxon, Bavarian and Württemberg). Each German State had their own patterns of cavalry swords prior to the introduction of the Preußischer M.1852 Kavallerie-Degen and it was in service between 1857 and 1889 as the standard issue sword for the Prussian Army.
    “The Australian Light Horse attack on Beersheba was the last important cavalry charge in history and the last to win a resounding victory that altered the course of a war." Alec Hepburn

  3. #3
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    Lightbulb Saxon and Prussian KS 52--The differences.

    Gentlemen; The Saber posted above is not the Prussian Model 1852, rather Saxon. Without considering the change to a pipe back blade in 1879, the major point is the shape of the grip. The Prussian has a "Fat Spot" under the ears, the Saxon is a gradual curve. Note also the different style of ears on the Saxon back strap, some Saxon weapons lack the ears entirely, or they are just vestiges remaining. Saxon weapons of a later era, until 1918, often lacked this feature, it seems, the later it was made, the greater chance the ears would not appear. This is especially true when dealing with extra purchase weapons.

    Look at the attached pix, and the difference is quite clearly seen. None of the Troopers' weapons of this model had wire wrap. At first they used leather over wood which was wrapped with cord, then later one finds molded grips of Bakelite, and finally, hardwood carved or cut with grooves, copying the leather wrap style, the latter type is somewhat rare, as they were only made during the First World War.

    This does not mean that the weapon posted above is not Prussian, just that it is made in Saxon pattern, which is quite possible when filling contracts, as they are so similar that it would not make all that much difference to the army using them, Saxon or Prussian..

    In order,from left to right, Prussian, Saxon, and both.. One minor point, this weapon was designated as; "Kriegssaebel Modell 1852" (According to the Germans,a "Degen" is always straight bladed, not curved.)

    The reason it was not called "Kavallriesaebel" is due to the fact it was issued to units other than Cavalry, The Kavallriedegen Model 1889/91 was issued only to the line cavalry of the German Army, the KS 52, and the Bluechersaebeln were given to the support troops when the new model was promulgated.

    Barney: The upper quillion on your Saber is bent back, they were made swept forward...

    Dale
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    Last edited by Dale Martin; 01-14-2015 at 01:22 AM. Reason: add BS

  4. #4
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    Jan 2014
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    Thanks Dale.

    I must admit I have been using as a source The Zieten Hussars site and some places on the net, such as a quote from John R Angolia, both of whom refer to this type of saber as a Kavallerie-saebel but I know the depth of your knowledge and I am happy to amend my notes. Interestingly enough, The Zieten Hussar site actually refers to an Extra version of the Prussian sword with a straight blade.

    I have a wonderful Extra (presentation) Saxon sword beautifully engraved for the Magdeburg Train Battalion No 4. It is one of my favourites. Luckily enough, I have been able to research the unit history as well. I am an ex-servicemen and history teacher and I love to be able to 'tell' the story of my sword.
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    “The Australian Light Horse attack on Beersheba was the last important cavalry charge in history and the last to win a resounding victory that altered the course of a war." Alec Hepburn

  5. #5
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    Dale,

    Excellent information.

    I just wanted to comment that the W mark on the blade hints to me it was Prussian issue of saxon pattern. I generally collect German bayonets of this era and they are always marked to the state. Saxony was certainly marking all bayonets and short swords at the period with AR (1873-1902) while Prussian marking was W (1888-1918).

    Excellent reference material at:
    http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages...al_Cyphers.pdf

    That said during WWI I am aware of Saxon divisions which were attached under Prussian Army command within the German Empire. I am unsure of pre-WWI division status as most stayed closer to their establushed state but it may be possible that is where the Saxon/Prussian mix occurred or a Saxon contract to supply Prussia with the swords.

  6. #6
    Thank you George, Dale and Greg for your excellent analysis and for the information which you provided. I am now much more enlightened about my sword and can also now begin to "tell" its story.
    Can anyone tell me what the significance of the number "76," which is surrounded by the words "Gebr Weyersberg and Solingen," might be?

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