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Thread: Basket Hilts

  1. #201
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
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    2,875
    Finally took better photos but lighting difficult to get right to see horseman clearly you can as if holding the sword in hand.
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  2. #202
    Hello Eric,
    Thank you for posting the very clear images of the Jamestown finds. The basket hilt shown in images 5 and 6 item no 4 is very similar to the hilt belonging to a sword I own and now illustrated in The Baron of Earlshall's fine work highlighted in Cathey's link....These finds helped me a great deal in enjoyable research on the sword the hilt is attached to .
    Regards,
    Paul.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
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    2,875
    I have one question regarding the horseman on the sword guard.
    Has anyone seen artwork or period tapestries depicting similar and if so can you post a link to it?
    The horseman has a sash flowing rearward and his right arm is extended rearward grasping a sword pointing forward. The line dissecting the upper half of the horseman head is part of his sword blade, difficult too see in photo. Took another in natural light and one of morion helmet with feather.
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    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 12-28-2016 at 12:01 PM. Reason: add photo

  4. #204
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278
    Hi Will,

    Fabulous Mortuary, ,more detailed than many I have seen. The horseman depicted appears typical 1630 period in dress. I tried to get a separate thread going just on mortuary's but sadly it did not grow legs.

    Cheers Cathey

  5. #205
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278

    BASKET-HILT c1615 – 1625 –Help with blade mark

    Hi Guys’

    This sword has been in our collection for many years and we have never come across the blade mark before. Any assistance regarding this odd mark will be most appreciated. I have found some marks that are vaguely similar but they date from 1380 onwards. The references for these are:

    GYNGELL, Dudley S. Hawtrey ARMOURERS MARKS pp25
    KINMAN, Steffan European Makers of Edged Weapons, their Marks A Handbook for Museums and Collectors pp23
    LENKIEWICZ, Zygmunt S. 1000 SWORD MARKS OF EUROPEAN BLADEMAKERS pp80, 88, 94,

    Nationality Scottish
    Overall Length 96 cm (37.8 inches)
    Blade length 83.2 cm (32.8 inches)
    Blade widest point 3.3 cm (1.3 inches)
    Hilt widest point 5” 12.7 cm
    Inside grip length 3 ¾” 9.5 cm
    Marks, etc. Deep blade mark stamped just below hilt.

    Description
    BASKET-HILT Scottish Circa 1615 Cavalry Broad Sword. Blade is pitted and has dark patina, possibly predates hilt. ‘S’ type basket. The same style of basket is featured in the September 1994 “Scottish Sword & Shield“ catalogue on page 12 no. 25 described as “Scottish basket hilted sword of the Saltire Group. S type basket Circa 1610 – 1625.”

    This sword has more neatly formed frontal saltire bars and the mid-point notches on the vertical sides of the junction plates are more U Shaped than those seen on other examples, but the pommel is cone shaped with grooving and fluting at the front and the rear but not, apparently at the sides. The lobes at the centre of the lateral linking bars are extremely long. Interestingly, the extended horizontal S bars are welded at the very top of the aperture formed by the rear and front vertical bar; the upper curve of the S bar nestling between the juncture of the rear vertical bar and where it joins the shoulder linking it with the forward vertical bar.

    The grip is a replacement 18th century one with plain iron collars at top and bottom. The double edged blade has single central groove stamped at the top with curious mark resembling a fleur-de-lys lacking its central stem. An additional curiosity is the arrangement of how the linking bars and lower rear arms of the saltires are welded behind the forward vertical bar instead of being merged directly into it.


    Regards Cathey and Rex
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  6. #206
    Hi Cathey,
    Nice basket, and I do have a question about the dating: why such an early date? I would have placed this in the latter half of the 1600s myself.

    ---ElJay

  7. #207
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278
    Hi ElJay

    I had originally thought like you that this Basket would date from the late 1600’s. However many years ago I sent pictures to the Baron and he came back firmly convinced that it was earlier circa 1615-25 due to elements of the Baskets construction. What has me stumped is the mark on the blade. The closest mark I have found in “Kinman” dates the blade to 1380, too early I believe in this case. It is possible that the mark at the top is obscured by age and there may be more to it. I had hoped someone would post a sword with the same mark, perhaps in better condition.

    Cheers Cathey and Rex.

  8. #208
    Hi Kathy,
    Thanks for the reply. Did the baron state specifically what construction details were early? I do note that there have been similar hilts from the Jamestown digs, but I don't recall what dates were given (or if they were even assigned dates!).

    I can't help with the blade stamp.

  9. #209
    Hi Kathy,
    Thanks for the reply. Did the baron state specifically what construction details were early? I do note that there have been similar hilts from the Jamestown digs, but I don't recall what dates were given (or if they were even assigned dates!).

    I can't help with the blade stamp.

  10. #210
    Hi
    I recon this is a "tessak". A sword from soutern germany.
    Lars

  11. #211
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278
    Hi Lars

    The swords on this post are largely Basket Hilts with the exception of a few Mortuary swords. Which No; Post did you think would be a Tessak?

    Cheers Cathey and Rex

  12. #212
    #53 and #57 from mister Ericson

  13. #213
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278
    Hi Lars

    Yes you would be correct about #53 and #57, they would fit in the Dusack / Tessak family, sometimes referred to as the basket hilt sabre of the renaissance or in the case of the Tessak the famers sword.

    Cheers Cathey and Rex

  14. #214
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278
    Hi Eljay

    I have gone through my correspondence with the baron, and although he was stated his view of the date he did not elaborate as to why. I think we may need to wait for Volume 2 of his book to get the answer as I am sure he will have something similar in that one.

    Cheers Cathey and Rex

  15. #215
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    278

    Scottish Staff Sergeant Mark I Sword

    Hi Guys

    Picked up this Sergeants Basket Hilt Sword by Garden.

    Nationality: British
    Date: 1857 pattern official introduction, Sword appears to pre date pattern introduction
    Maker/Retailer: Hugh GARDEN
    Overall Length: 40 3/8” 102.4 cm in scabbard 39” 99cm sword only
    Blade length: 33” 83.9 cm, fuller 8 ½” 21.7 cm
    Blade widest point: 1 ½”
    Hilt widest point: 7” 17.5 cm
    Inside grip length: 4 ¼” 10.5 cm
    Marks, etc.: Stamped I over 4 on the Wrist Guard, Etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON in the fuller
    Description

    Scottish Staff Sergeant Sword Mark I.
    Extremely Large Steel Basket with Fishskin grip bound with copper wire. Plain Broadsword blade with short central fuller etched GARDEN 200 Piccadilly LONDON. Leather scabbard with two steel mounts and frog.

    Interestingly it is marked with a 1 over 4 on the wrist guard, no idea what this means but probably confirms that this is a NCO sword not an Officers.

    General Remarks
    Due to chat with Gordon Byrne this morning I need to edit my description of this sword. Firstly the pattern as such was introduced in 1857 not 1852. However, too much emphasis is placed on recorded pattern dates, swords could have evolved prior to the actual official date of introduction. As this sword in etched GARDEN not Garden and Sons it is likely by Hugh Garden 1827-1851 200 Piccadilly, Army Accoutrements and Saddler. Whilst this sword appears to comply with the general description of the sword introduced in 1857, the maker would have been Hugh Garden who died in 1852, and there are similar examples that pre-date the Indian Mutiny.

    Cheers Cathey and Rex
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    Last edited by Cathey Brimage; 05-26-2017 at 08:21 PM. Reason: New Information

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