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Thread: Two knives for your deliberation and hopefully id.

  1. #1
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    Two knives for your deliberation and hopefully id.

    Hello one and all.
    I have recently received these two little knives. They have come from a collector who had ties to the Malay area they were in tea I believe.
    The first is a decorated long thin afair.
    It measures
    Overall 300mm
    Blade. 220mm
    As they say a picture paints a thousand words here is said picture.




    The second is a great little plain item.
    Measurements
    Overall 240mm
    Blade. 150mm



    I would very much like to hear the thoughts from you all here.
    Many thanks.
    David.
    PARTING THE CLOUDS SEEKING THE WAY
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts.

  2. #2
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    I think the first is a Tumbak Lada knife from Sumatra. The second may be as well but not so sure on this one.
    The journey not the destination

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the info Guy.
    Are they utility knives or would they be more ceremonial?
    Thanks again.
    David.
    PARTING THE CLOUDS SEEKING THE WAY
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts.

  4. #4
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    Just thought the second one might be a Badik also from Sumatra. These Indonesian knives are all very similar to Western eyes but have strong cultural ties in the region. You may also like to look up Kris or Keris. They are certainly used ceremonially but also in duels and I suppose earlier in warfare.
    The journey not the destination

  5. #5
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    Sewar. A traditional knife of Sumatra. The 2nd one looks relatively recent.

    The tumbok lada ("pepper crusher", since the hilt looks like a pepper crusher) is usually a quite stout weapon, with a wide and thick blade, usually with fullers. Basically, a heavy-duty sewar. These ones, especially the first, look too delicate to be tumbok lada. Thus, sewar.
    "In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.

  6. #6
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    Timo
    These are all classified on this site as Timbuk Lada and several are fairly small and slight knives.

    http://old.blades.free.fr/daggers/tumbukl/tumbukl.htm
    I must admit I am not an expert on these knives in fact this sewar/tumbuk lada debate surfaced when I tried to identify the first Indonesian knife I purchased.

    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...a-Kaetta-Knife

    Are there any definative publications around which compare the various blades found in this region?
    The journey not the destination

  7. #7
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    The best book - and the only one I know that's deserving of "definitive" - is van Zonneveld's "Traditional Weapons of the Indonesian Archipelago":
    http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-We.../dp/9054500042
    https://books.google.com.au/books/ab...d=DMneAAAAMAAJ

    Van Zonneveld is the only source I have for tumbok lada being stouter. Other than that, sewar have a broader range of pommels and scabbards, while tumbok lada are more stylistically constrained.

    The old classics like Stone and Egerton don't have anything useful. Stone notes tumuk lada as a type of Malay knife, and Egerton has examples of both (e.g., 279 and 280 in Group VI, fig 23 on pg 96), but calls them both 'Daggers; "Kris;"'.
    "In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.

  8. #8
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    Thank you gent's.
    It's always nice to learn and these are very much out of my sphere of knowledge.
    I've passed on the info to the old owner, he tells me that they were his father's. He was appreciative for the info and was impressed by the speed and depth too. He is very happy that they have a new appreciative home and I could be getting a new kukri from him too. Happy day's.

    David.
    PARTING THE CLOUDS SEEKING THE WAY
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts.

  9. #9
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    Thank you Timo, sadly pries on the van Zonnevelds book seem to range fom £210 to £999 depending on condition. I shall have to content my self with Machete, Kris, and Throwing Iron: Edged Weapons of Latin America, Indonesia, and Africa for now.

    The journey not the destination

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy C View Post
    Thank you Timo, sadly pries on the van Zonnevelds book seem to range fom £210 to £999 depending on condition. I shall have to content my self with Machete, Kris, and Throwing Iron: Edged Weapons of Latin America, Indonesia, and Africa for now.
    Guy, I lucked into a copy of van Zonneveld's book. Have to say it's an absolute gold mine of information on arms from that region.
    mark@swordforum.com

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