Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: A US Model 1902 conundrum, mystery, enigma.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    673

    A US Model 1902 conundrum, mystery, enigma.

    I put before you a Pettibone Bros. Mfg. Co., Cincinnati, O., catalog dated 1900-1901. They seem to be selling two different versions of the Model 1902 saber for all officers, before it became regulation. Pettibone did some sword assembly and bought compete swords from, Lilley, Ames and WKC.
    As usual, the picture manager arranged the photos out of order.

    The upper left picture describes the no 680 "New Pattern Officer's Saber" shown on the middle right. Except for the scabbard rings which are too far apart, the hilt lacking a branch, it is pretty close to the M1902. Except for the "Italian" grip, it resembles some swords in the WKC catalog.

    The middle right and upper left pictures describes the no.682 also as the "New Pattern Officer's Sword". Except for the added scabbard ring and the "Italian" grip it is a French M1884 officer epee.

    What did Pettibone know and were they given some information on the M02 before it was regulation. I have always suspected M.C. Lilley was involved in the development of the M02 and Pettibone was a close customer. Keep in mind the early versions of the Springfield made M02 has Lilley style blade etching. The commercial M.C. Lilley M02s were very close in style and detail to the Springfield M02. But the Ames hilt was slightly bigger and shaped a little more square with much heavier branches and a different blade etching pattern.
    On page 221 of Farrington's book, he says that Ames made the prototypes and the first commercial M02s, yet the Ames hilt is a very different style from the Springfield or Lilley types. The hilt of the pictured Ames sword is the pre 1908 heavy and square version described above.
    I have examples in my collection of the above and will provide additional photos as requested.

    Any comments?
    Attached Images Attached Images       
    Last edited by T. Graham; 02-10-2017 at 09:32 AM. Reason: The next day shows grammer errors

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Annandale, VA
    Posts
    738
    Interesting. Did Pettibone actually sell any of these pre-regulation swords, and, if so, did they in fact look like the illustrations, i.e. did the 680 example lack a branch and was the 682 actually straight-bladed?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    673
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Schenk View Post
    Interesting. Did Pettibone actually sell any of these pre-regulation swords, and, if so, did they in fact look like the illustrations, i.e. did the 680 example lack a branch and was the 682 actually straight-bladed?
    I have not seen anything like them in the market. Pettibone, through Lilley, must have known a new regulation sword was coming. then faked the catalog and took pre-orders.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    673
    I have come across an example of the no. 680. It is an Italian officers saber marked F. Horster, Solingen. The owner has convinced himself that it is American Civil War and has considerable value. I saw little point in trying to dissuade him.
    Note the checkering and the fancy thumb clearance (or whatever that is) on photo 3 . I have found it on 02's.
    Attached Images Attached Images     

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •