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Thread: An Espada de Ancha or what the hell is this??? Please an help!

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    An Espada de Ancha or what the hell is this??? Please an help!

    Hello to all pals and happy to enjoy this marvellous forum! Starting form t eh fact that sword is not my main collecting field in spite I have something, I would be grateful to have your opinion about this strange sword (almost for me...). It appears from a flea market in southern Italy where the spanish domination was deeply present....it has a total lenght of 75 cm and has two mottos engraved on the blade. On one side is clearly recognizable " UN DIOS UNA LEY UN REY " but from the other side is virtually impossible to recognize...will try better to see and take a picture with a different light. The grip is broken (at first I thought be a bayonet) and I don't see any maker's mark. please can you help me to understand what is it??
    Thank you so much in advance for yoyr precious help!!

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    Seems that I cannot download the images due the size.....

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    Done through an external hosting...hope it will works...

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    The blade looks like a 17th century broad sword cut down to a hunting sword. This type is common on espada anchas in Mexico. I have seen a few with for God the Law and the King. I am not good at dating these early broad sword blades and it could be earlier. The hilt is the typical composite of parts from different eras for espada anchas but not typical style. Finger loops were popular on South American espada anchas but not Mexican. The peened tangs were also more popular in the South. While not recognizable parts in hilt the blade is a very standard type used by colonials to build hunting or side swords in the 1740 to 1780 time frame. Perhaps some one that spent time in the Americas and went back and styled his on version of the swords he saw here.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  12. #12
    Thank you very much, Eric, for your words. It is quite interesting how it appeared from a flea market with absolutely no connection to antiques or anything else. It appeared together with a Yatagan that I will show here for your info. It should be interesting to understand what there is written on the other side of the blade....

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    Found together the sword
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    maker's mark

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    Broken grip....

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    I think it is recycled blade from a Spanish infantry officer sword from middle to second half of 18th century. Original grip shall have looked something like this:

    Name:  6828b92db7e10b6ec999c7cbd290343c.jpg
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    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  17. #17
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    I think it is recycled blade from a Spanish infantry officer sword from middle to second half of 18th century. Original grip shall have looked something like this:

    Name:  6828b92db7e10b6ec999c7cbd290343c.jpg
Views: 114
Size:  24.7 KB
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Javier Ramos View Post
    I think it is recycled blade from a Spanish infantry officer sword from middle to second half of 18th century. Original grip shall have looked something like this:

    Name:  6828b92db7e10b6ec999c7cbd290343c.jpg
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Size:  24.7 KB
    Hi Javier

    I'm confused, Fabrizio's sword has a double edged blade which looks like it's always been double edged to me.

    That's a magnificent looking sword that you show there, is it yours?
    Last edited by Gene Wilkinson; 08-09-2017 at 03:12 PM.

  19. #19
    Hi Fabrizio

    I have to say that this is one of the most interesting swords that I've seen for a while!

    The broadsword blade is magnificent.
    The 'two finger-loop' is a new concept in my experience.
    While I was admiring the 'unique' guard, I found that the scalloped centre section reminded me of hunting swords that lack integral shells in their guards (Eric mentions hunting swords).
    The 'strangest' thing about this very strange sword for me, is the 'pommel' area.
    I can't see the evidence for a missing back-strap. So I wonder if there was simply a 'cap' to cover the square nut?

    I take it from your description of their purchase, that this and the Yataghan were in the range of 'bargains'?
    If so, congratulations! They are both very interesting additions to your collection.

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Wilkinson View Post
    Hi Javier

    I'm confused, Fabrizio's sword has a double edged blade which looks like it's always been double edged to me.

    That's a magnificent looking sword that you show there, is it yours?
    No but I have two blades from the same type (Toledo 1799 and 1801). Actually they have double edges, but the upper one runs only for two thirds. The three of them are troopers swords (Grenadiers probably). The ones with mottoes were the officers ones, usually full double edged and often with a channel. First I thought it was a cut down cavalry blade, but the ricasso seems original. This is probably first half XVIIIth century:

    https://es.pinterest.com/pin/4705558...13&w=530&h=415

    This kind of hilt (barquilla) was also used with infantry swords, but their blades were more often rapier like. Furthermore, in this sort of hilt you have a ricasso inside the cup, and I think this is not the case with the sword of the original post, that is why I sugested a hilt similar to the grenadiers swords.
    Last edited by Javier Ramos; 08-09-2017 at 03:44 PM.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  21. #21
    Hi Javier

    Very interesting thank you.
    I don't see many fine Spanish swords for sale in this part of the UK, which is a shame as I very much like them!

  22. #22
    Hello gene and Javier...first of all many thanks for your posts and interest! The main thing that i would like to do is to recognize what there is written on the other side of the blade...maybe this could be the key to understand what it is. A spanish friend of mine told me that the motto "Un Dios, una Ley, Un Rey" is typical from Carlo V era but this , imho, would date the sword too back in the years and I agree that the blade is typical of XVIII century.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Wilkinson View Post

    I take it from your description of their purchase, that this and the Yataghan were in the range of 'bargains'?
    If so, congratulations! They are both very interesting additions to your collection.
    Yes Gene...absolutely a bargain....

  24. #24
    Gene if you mean the red circled square nut, I think that it never been anything to cover it. The wooden grip is broken but the blade is firm and stable....

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    1,426
    Hi, Fabrizio.

    Javier's suggestion may well be on the spot, but I wouldn't rule out a shortened/broken cavalry sword (shortened in the last third, near the point). The ricasso may have been grinded to form a narrow tang, not difficult to do, or it could come from a Spanish Dragoons' sword. Those had no ricasso and were very similar to the infantry sword showed by Javier, only larger with an iron guard.

    The grip seems to be originally made for a sabre, one of the French-styled infantry ones, like this one from early 19th century:

    Name:  sabre.jpg
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    Best,
    JJ
    SI, SI
    NO, NON

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