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Thread: Wilkinson patent hilt...

  1. #1

    Wilkinson patent hilt...

    Does anybody have any information on when the earliest recorded patent hilt was produced by the Wilkinson sword company ? Did it make any reference to Reeves patent, and was it before ,or after numbering was introduced in in 1854?

    spiral
    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge."

    Daniel J. Boorstin

  2. #2
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    The short answer is no. One of the earliest numbered Wilkinsons was a patent hilt - from memory it was numbered 5004 or something like that. My guess therefore would be that they were making patent hilts before they started numbering blades (therefore in 1853).

    Here is an article about a Reeves patent hilt I own which seems to date to 1852, which does not refer to the patent because the 1853 patent had not been granted yet:
    http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/antiqu...-sale/1821-92/

    Regards,
    Matt

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Easton View Post
    One of the earliest numbered Wilkinsons was a patent hilt - from memory it was numbered 5004 or something like that.
    Almost in the gold - 5002

    And to give an idea of the quality issues Wilkinson faced at this relatively early stage of sword making, the only ones shown before that are listed as "4 normal infantry blades" with a note "Brittle - 1 failed".

    John
    "If I can't be a good example to others, at least let me be a horrible warning".

  4. #4
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    Gah, I won't forget that number again!

    I suppose we can say with some certainty that Wilkinson probably were making patent hilts before 1854 therefore. And of course the patent wasn't granted until 1853, so technically the earliest 'patent' solid hilt made by Wilkinson was almost certainly in 1853.

    As noted above, there are two or three known examples of swords by Reeves with this hilt construction which date to before 1853, but they aren't technically 'patent hilts' because they had not received the patent yet. Call that political pedantry, but it's factually correct.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Many thanks to both Matt and John.

    Fascinating stuff!

    Might the term "solid hilt" Which is sometimes seen on these earlier swords and not used in conjunction with the term "patent" signify a pre 1853 production date?

    Are there any other details about sword 5002?

    Does anybody know if it still exists?

    Has any one actually recorded a Wilikinson marked "solid hilt" prior to 5002?

    Many thanks for the informed discussion!

    JRS
    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge."

    Daniel J. Boorstin

  7. #7
    Always interested in discussion of solid hilt swords, and looks like a couple of knowledgeable people have already helped you with answers to your questions; however, may I ask if you in fact own any early solid hilt swords.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan R. S. View Post
    Might the term "solid hilt" Which is sometimes seen on these earlier swords and not used in conjunction with the term "patent" signify a pre 1853 production date?
    Interesting question.
    I don't think that it is indicative of an earlier date by itself - I have a Pillin "solid hilt" made for W H Gilbert & Co of Calcutta. I don't know the exact date of it, but given that the earliest Reeves solid hilts we have dates for seem to be around 1851-52, I have assumed that it is after that. I don't think that other companies such as Pillin and Mole (who both also occasionally made this type of hilt) made solid hilts earlier than Reeves. That Reeves applied for and got the patent suggests that Charles Reeves was the first one to make them (for Victorian officers' swords at least).

    Has any one actually recorded a Wilikinson marked "solid hilt" prior to 5002?
    Not yet, as far as I'm aware. One may eventually turn up though.

    Regards,
    Matt

  9. #9
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    An earlier thread with some interesting info: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-REEVES-amp-Co

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Easton View Post
    Interesting question.
    I don't think that it is indicative of an earlier date by itself - I have a Pillin "solid hilt" made for W H Gilbert & Co of Calcutta. I don't know the exact date of it, but given that the earliest Reeves solid hilts we have dates for seem to be around 1851-52, I have assumed that it is after that. I don't think that other companies such as Pillin and Mole (who both also occasionally made this type of hilt) made solid hilts earlier than Reeves. That Reeves applied for and got the patent suggests that Charles Reeves was the first one to make them (for Victorian officers' swords at least).

    Not yet, as far as I'm aware. One may eventually turn up though.

    Regards,
    Matt
    Thank You Matt thats excellent! Cheers for sharing your knowledge and thoughts! Realy great stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    An earlier thread with some interesting info: http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...-REEVES-amp-Co
    That Great Will, Thank you! More grist to the mill!

    Quote Originally Posted by gordon byrne View Post
    Always interested in discussion of solid hilt swords, and looks like a couple of knowledgeable people have already helped you with answers to your questions; however, may I ask if you in fact own any early solid hilt swords.
    Glad you enjoy the discusian Gordon, yes they did didnt they! They realy help make the forum a good place to be!


    Despite Having helped dozens of people myself on sfi over the years, I didn't realise owning such a piece was necessary to qualify my interest in it? Or to ask for further clarification?

    If I owned such a piece I would have posted photos of it and invited discussion and opinions.. Im like that..

    Obviously I am aware of what I think may be such a piece in a friends collection...Ive discussed it with him, but he doesn't do forums so I wanted to see what those more knowledgeable than I thought on this subject thought.

    Hope thats ok with you?

    Cheers,

    Jonathan AKA spiral
    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge."

    Daniel J. Boorstin

  11. #11
    Hi Jonathan,

    Understand completely and agree, gaining knowledge is very important, and my own opinion is that as long as I live and breath, I will always endeavour to learn. Suck that many swords and types of swords that are of considerable interest to me, I will never own; so the next best thing to do is to study and understand what they are all about. I commend your interest in solid hilt swords, a particular area of study, which I have followed for several years.

  12. #12
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    5002 has just appeared on t'internet!

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