Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: blade-smith mark

  1. #1

    blade-smith mark

    Could anybody identify these markings please:Name:  ice_screenshot_20170905-223606.jpeg
Views: 138
Size:  74.8 KB

  2. #2
    There is also this on the blade:
    Name:  ice_screenshot_20170905-223721.jpeg
Views: 132
Size:  88.8 KB

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    Could do with a full size photo of the sword please. Looks like it could be one of the British Militia Hangers of the 1750's, appears to be a Crown above 9? on the blade, and 2nd Battalion? for the hilt mark. The other mark is one of the generic, 'Running Wolf of Passau' types, indicating the blade is of German origin.You will see others with a 'running fox' containing an SH for the English maker Samuel Harvey. Again a full frontal will reveal all!

  4. #4
    Is there any possibility it could be a Shotley Bridge blade? That is what I am searching for. I am researching the SB blade-smiths as part of a local history/industry project that will be the basis of a travelling lecture and would dearly love to actually have one of their blades. Here's the full Monty:Name:  ice_screenshot_20170905-223750.jpeg
Views: 111
Size:  75.1 KB

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    The only references I've seen show SB blades as stamped simply 'Shotley Bridge' or just 'Bridg' no 'e', and also crossed swords or the running fox, as I'm sure you're aware... hopefully you'll get a comprehensive answer from one of our much more knowledgeable colleagues. Let's hope it's at least English!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Near Cambridge UK
    Posts
    21
    Shotley Bridge would be too early I would think. It's possible the blade mark could be the running fox of Samuel Harvey (Birmingham) who made a lot of blades for the military in the mid 18C. Although I thought his mark usually had an SH or an H in the mark as well - others may know better. The crowned 2 (or 3?) is a blade inspection stamp by an ordnance inspector. The hilt mark is regimental, possibly 2nd battalion?

    Can't see the sword in full to get an idea of the model (more pics please?) - could be one of the infantry hangars that were produced in quantity mid 18C, many by Harvey.

    Jerry

  7. #7
    I live on Tyneside, hence my interest in Shotley Bridge; but because it is specifically SB blades, I know precious little about antique swords in general, other than bits and pieces I have picked up by osmosis, hence my request for identification of the markings – for which I am most grateful.
    A lot of what I've learned so far has made it harder than ever to identify SB blades.
    I suspect they used a fox rather than the Passau wolf and this certainly looks like the wolf, but I can't be certain if that was always the case.
    What I am told is that there were never any initials within the outline of the animal used by SB smiths. They were certainly entitled to use either the wolf or the fox due to their heritage, as opposed to many others who purloined the mark to achieve un-warranted prestige i.e. SH.
    A lot of the time they had SHOTLE on one side, and BRIDG on the other, but I have seen two blades recently in one of my local museums with the full spelling.
    They began work around 1687 and the last serious output was as late as the early 1800s; after that, Birmingham and Solingen were supplying the bulk of the market, but one family (who's descendants endured into the 1960s) continued as knife and bayonet manufacturers, then household tools and domestic implements, until the early 1900s.
    Any help I can get from the experts will be most gratefully received.
    Name:  ice_screenshot_20170905-223701.jpeg
Views: 108
Size:  80.9 KB

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    Interesting stuff Keith, if by chance your last paragraph is referring to the Mohll/Mole family, have a look at an old thread 'sword makers of Shotley Bridge', written by a descendant! If not which family?

  9. #9
    No, it was the Oley family. They were the last descendants of the 1685 Solingen exodus to still live in Shotley Bridge.
    Nicholas Oley, who died in 1964 is seen in the photo holding the last sword ever tempered in Shotley Bridge: by his grandfather.
    The book, 'The Swordmakers of Shotley Bridge' published in 1973 by Frank Graham was written by David Richardson, the grandson of Mary Oley.
    It would be gratifying to accept that the Mohlls of SB and the Moles of Birmingham were related but it appears they definitely were not; shame.
    Name:  Nocholas Oley.jpg
Views: 102
Size:  45.3 KB
    Last edited by Keith Fisher; 09-09-2017 at 02:34 PM. Reason: typo

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    Yes agreed, the Mohlls were not the Moles! Great photo thx.

  11. #11
    When Wilkinson Sword had a factory in Cramlington, here on Tyneside, they had a glass case in reception with Shotley Bridge swords in it. Memory of that helped persuade me of the Mohll/Mole connection. I don't know what happened to those swords.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    Great pity, talking of Wilkinson, Robert Wilkinson-Latham's book, 'The Swords and Records of Robert Mole & Sons 1835-1920' makes it quite clear about the lack of evidence linking the Mohll lineage to Mole, if you weren't aware.

  13. #13
    I haven't looked at his book; it was the entry on this website drawing attention to his research that convinced me.
    Looking carefully at the animal on the blade I am researching makes me realise it is a fox and a sophisticated marking too. Plus, there are no initials inside re. SH. I'm beginning to wonder if it is a SB blade after all.
    Did Solingen and Passau use a fox as well as a wolf?

  14. #14
    ps
    it looks like the same sword Mr Oley is holding in the photo. How late was this style of sword still in use?
    Last edited by Keith Fisher; 09-10-2017 at 04:29 AM. Reason: extra question.

  15. #15
    I know this is a tall order, but does anyone know what the 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards used during the 1760s, as this sword may well have been one of theirs.

  16. #16
    In case there is any interest in my Shotley Bridge research here is a photo of Joseph Oley c.1880: the last active bladesmith in Shotley Bridge. He made the last blade in the area - see earlier photo of his grandson in 1964 - in 1840.
    Name:  Joseph Oley c1880 low res.jpg
Views: 64
Size:  89.8 KB
    Last edited by Keith Fisher; 09-11-2017 at 03:08 PM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    Great photos Keith, I'm surprised others haven't contributed, you might wish to try Vikingsword.com in their ethnographic
    Arms and armour forum, they really know their early swords.
    PM sent.
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 09-12-2017 at 04:55 AM.

  18. #18
    It appears that cleaning such a sword is anathema to many enthusiast, so I'm in two minds - but leaning towards my natural approach which is to respect the manufacturer and the original owner and treat the sword with diligent attention: straight to the point, I'm inclined to clean it of surface grime without impacting on the metal, does this strike horror into enthusiast's souls?
    A very similar sword with an identical fox, in the same place on the blade, was described by a vendor last year as an Oley blade from Shotley Bridge; according to the auctioneer, the vendor was a native of the SB area and had personal knowledge of its probity. Maybe I'm in luck.
    Did these swords originally have a scabbard?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon UK
    Posts
    227
    It looks in good condition, perhaps a very gentle application of 'Autosol' and then wiped over with 'Renaissance Wax' to protect it, less is always best! The scabbard would undoubtedly have been leather with a metal chape and locket, possibly with a hook for belt/baldrick, consequently very few have survived.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •