Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Another Spanish colonial type

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    L'abbaye de Theleme
    Posts
    748

    Another Spanish colonial type

    Dilapidated in an umbrella stand among walking sticks, yesterday I found this thing at a local antiquaries show:


    Name:  Entera2.jpg
Views: 65
Size:  72.3 KB

    I had seen the style before but my guesses then are just the same as now. This precedes the typical espadas anchas of New Mexico, probably from 1690-1740, place of manufacture possibly the Nueva Granada vice-royalty (now Peru, Colombia, Venezuela) but they seem to have reached even Phillipines.

    The blade of this one could be a century older or even more. The typical Spanish ricasso is built with a brass piece. There is something ilegible scratched on the blade. The rings in the grip and the spiral ribbon are silver. I believe I have seen another of these ones recently at the forum (from Eric Fairbanks maybe?). They are much less common than the typical Espada Ancha, they do not appear in Peterson or Brinckerhoff books, but still I could find some others on internet:

    A finished ebay sale with an amazing price...

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPANISH-CONQ...p2047675.l2557

    Pommel maybe not original, blade is very much like the first example, including measurements.


    And three pages from Vicente Toledo


    http://vicentetoledo.es/sites/defaul...onial%2022.pdf

    http://vicentetoledo.es/sites/defaul...onial%2021.pdf

    Possibly remounted with a later regular cavalry blade.

    http://vicentetoledo.es/sites/defaul...0%20%20%20.pdf

    Possibly the the style was becoming less "colonial" (if colonial at all!). With the date 1736 (it doesn not look a magic number to me).
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Javier Ramos; 09-17-2017 at 01:34 PM.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North West US
    Posts
    1,061
    Be still my heart.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    North West US
    Posts
    1,061
    Engraved Enrique Colespario and on the other side, Del Rey EM Alemahnia. This sword is on a antique militaria site here in US and came out of South America. I agree this is a style used more south than Central America. Javier, I do not own one of these but have watched this one for some time. They are indeed beautiful swords and seem to be more of a calvary type as they appear heavy. They look like a small sword married a boca de
    caballo calvary sword. Congratulations on your find.Eric
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    L'abbaye de Theleme
    Posts
    748
    Thanks for that one. Enrique Colespario, sounds like the Enrique Coel seen in many Boca de Caballo swords. I read "ViVA x ELx REY x DE x ESPANNA" and maybe "Soy de Bernardo Bagueño Rosario" or alike. The cross could come from a Boca de Caballo that has been colonialized.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    1,408
    Hi to all.

    Sorry, but I answer in a hurry. I've usually seen these particular type of double-shell hilted swords linked to Philippines. In fact I remember a particular one with some attribution to a Manilas Governor garde-de-corps, or a municipal guard of that city. In my opinion, they are more of an official pattern than a style or type.

    Nice swords, anyway.

    JJ
    SI, SI
    NO, NON

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    L'abbaye de Theleme
    Posts
    748
    The only way to be sure is to find one localized in its original place, museum or private collection. If the source is a single one, like a swordsmith in Manila I would expect a greater similarity among the swords themselves, and not just some common characters like the lobated dish hilt and brass aplications. We need more examples. Given the dependency of Phllippines from Mexico manufactures, this could be a hard one. It could be solved with a detailed study of horn and wood biological samples, but I doubt anybody will attempt that.

    Of course, it could have been like that, as a new member joined, his sword would have been modified to fit those chararcteristics and a new pommel found for the changed balance.

    The ebay sword was discussed at vikingsword in 2008, but not too much info is found:
    http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5952

    I found another of these swords at the Victor Balaguer Museum (Vilanova i la Geltru, Spain):

    Name:  Victor Balaguer.jpg
Views: 37
Size:  42.6 KB

    The museum host both Philippine and South America pre-columbian collections, but it seems this is from the Philippine wing.

    It seems that the use of silver banding on grips was usual in Philippines:
    https://www.rom.on.ca/en/blog/weapon...he-philippines

    The sword hilts concrections from the Galleon San Diego, sunk in Manila in 1600, show not brass at first sight. But only the japanese tsubas seem well cleaned.
    -----
    PS

    Some more things. Another sword sold at auction with the "No me saques" motto:
    http://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com...word_i23527904
    Name:  23527904_2.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  25.4 KB

    Knife with spiral horn grip from Luzon.
    http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1909

    A cutlass with similar spiral horn grip, said to be mexican (but not to be found in "espadas anchas"):
    Name:  23527904_5.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  35.9 KB

    A thread from swordforum where these swords were discussed in 2008:
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...colonial-sword

    The Philippine possibility was not mentioned, but the unit hypothesis was.
    Name:  inteira e parte.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  52.6 KB
    Name:  bilamina.jpg
Views: 22
Size:  99.0 KB

    With another interesting example (no lobed dish-hilt):

    Name:  viva.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  32.6 KB

    If these swords belonged to Manila presidio and fortifications and not to a field unit, "Bs" could be bastion.
    Last edited by Javier Ramos; 09-18-2017 at 07:26 PM.
    La vida amable, el enemigo hombre fuerte, ordinario el peligro, natural la defensa, la Ciencia para conseguirla infalible, su estudio forçoso, y el exercicio necessario conviene al que huviere de ser Diestro, no ignore la teorica, para que en la practica, el cuerpo, el braço, y los instrumentos obren lo conveniente a su perfeccion. --Don Luis Pacheco de Narvaez.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •