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Thread: British 1896p Cavalry Officers Sword-Help With Initials Please.

  1. #1
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    British 1896p Cavalry Officers Sword-Help With Initials Please.

    Just arrived for my birthday today (and gently cleaned within an hour of opening it!) a good condition ‘Universal’ 1896p of standard form. ERVII cypher on both sides of the blade, retailer etched Holt & Son, Sackville St. London, with brass proof slug ‘P’, which I assume is Pillin, spine stamped with serial number 105738. Blade also etched with owners initials which I take to be T over L. I’m aware that by this swords’ dates ie 1901-10 it would have been used by both heavy and light cavalry, so have been trawling through Hart’s online, but to no avail ( thought it might be easier with only two initials as opposed to the three or more for these posh chaps!). The only other regular unit that I know carried this pattern was the Royal Army Veterinary Corps, so other than the Yeomanry I’m stumped at the moment. Can anyone help find TL or LT please, would be great to track him down. Thanks, Ben.

    PS. I’ve seen a couple of examples sporting buff leather hilt liners, Dress Regulations 1900 make no mention of such, was this a local regimental choice or simply a later adornment by the collector.
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  2. #2
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    Initials, the L has a long upward end ie almost a Square capital U, if you see what I mean.
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    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-25-2017 at 05:47 AM.

  3. #3
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    These HC hilts do stand out very nicely with white buff leather and easy enough to make. Hope you find your man.

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    Thanks Will, yes I’ve made one for my 1821 HC Troopers, but didn’t want to make another if it wasn’t regulation issue for this pattern.
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-25-2017 at 07:00 AM.

  5. #5
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    I've seen photos of the 1821 HC troopers with the buff leather. The officer variations had them too but not sure if all time periods had them.
    I bought my buff leather from: https://www.identityleathercraft.com/ they were very helpful with smaller quantities. However I did purchase more than I first planned because the price was right and I could make over a dozen liners or more from the piece they sold me. I found it best to blanko the side that touches the guard as rust tends to develop. Could be something to do with how the leather is processed, I don't store my swords in a damp place.

  6. #6
    (Hon'ble) Thomas Lister, 2nd lieut., 1 Jan. 1897, 10th Hussars?

  7. #7
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    Many thanks for your efforts Mr B, will check him out further on The Gazette, he’s only three years early, cheers, Ben.

  8. #8
    Glad to be of help, Ben!
    Another edition of the Army List has his commission as 2nd lt. on 1 Dec. 1897.
    Good luck and best regards!

  9. #9
    P.S. Re date: if Lister is the one, he could have ordered the sword at any time - say, upon promotion or whatever - rather than at his initial commission. In that case, there's also Thomas, Earl of Longford, 2nd Life Guards.
    Last edited by L. Braden; 11-25-2017 at 01:09 PM.

  10. #10
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    Absolutely, and of course with the advent of a new King, many officers would have ordered a new sword. If it is Captain the Hon. Thomas Lister DSO 10th Hussars, killed in action Somaliland 1904 fighting the dervishes, I’ve lots more research to do! Thanks again.

  11. #11
    Yo, Ben - we seemed to have crossed posts. Note my addition of Longford. Couldn't find any other TL and no LT. Cheers!

  12. #12
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    Thanks, unlikely to be Longford as wrong sword pattern, would obviously love it to be Lister, but, there’s no armorial crest with the initials, no regimental device to the ‘ Shiny Tenth’ and it’s not a Wilkinson as would befit the son of Baron Ribblesdale. But then again he was Yorkshireman, not known for their largesse!
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-25-2017 at 01:36 PM.

  13. #13
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    A further request gents, as I’m obviously keen to firm up the possibility of this being the/a sword of young Captain Thomas Lister, does anyone have access to the Yeomanry Lists that cover the Edwardian period (other than the on-line Harts) please?
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-26-2017 at 03:04 AM.

  14. #14
    I checked the Edwardian Era Yeomanry Lists 1900-1910 and found the following:
    L. Timpson, Lt., Hampshire Yeomanry (Carabiners).
    T. J. Longworth, Lt., Gloucestershire Yeomanry (Hussars).

  15. #15
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    Again, many thanks for your time and efforts Mr B. nearly there, wishful thinking that it’s Lister as the L is clearly the larger letter! Cheers, Ben.
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-27-2017 at 01:56 AM.

  16. #16
    Wish I could be of more help, Ben! An indication of how futile this is: I decided to check the entire army indices - not just the ones that you indicated - and gave up after finding a dozen TLs, any one of whom could be the one. But with only the initials to go by, there's no way that we can positively identify him, especially since there's ample evidence that infantry and artillery officers and others purchased and used cavalry swords.
    Best Regards!

  17. #17
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    Indeed, proper provenance is the only true guide, but researching Lister and Timpson has been fascinating in any case, taking me from a descendant of James Fenimore Cooper to a close friend of Rupert Brooke! Thanks again.
    Last edited by Ben Bevan; 11-27-2017 at 11:19 AM.

  18. #18
    Thought I was done, but your mention of the Veterinary Corps in your first post prompted me to check again at a later date than I did initially, and lo and behold, we have: Thomas Lishman, Lieut. 13 Feb. 1907, Army Veterinary Dept.
    Cheers!

  19. #19
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    Oh Calamity! Thanks.

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