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Thread: Looking for identification of C.L.E. on eagle pommel saber

  1. #1

    Looking for identification of C.L.E. on eagle pommel saber

    Does anyone know what the C.L.E. engraving on this saber stands for? Maker, importer? Any help will be greatly appreciated since I can't find it in any of my books. Thanks in advance
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  2. #2
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    Looks familiar and it is an oldie, judging by the b&g.

    Is there anyway you could send me any or all of the full size images for it?
    gcleeton@gmail.com

    It seems to me there is an example in the Medicus collection book and I will check there and a couple of others tomorrow. I would/will also look at Mowbray and Bezdek for German names that might make sense of the initials. I may have a sibling in my files. I think Pierre (pcay) had one but I don't recall the initials.

    The lozenges vs balls in the guard and the small langet decoration kind of French looking like some LePage stuff but this is not French, I think.

    Cheers

    GC

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    Saved to my files in 2012. AFAIK, it wasn't mentioned as marked or I would have made a note when archiving it. Only these four images.






    I'll poke around. Bezdek German Makers may come up with a name(s)

    Cheers

    GC

  4. #4
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    The pcay example, similarly missing attribution (yes, I have a file folder just for him ) for educational use only. This one a different blade and knuckle duster but the rest the same. Fancy grip, clipped point blade.




    Archived in 2016, so that was fairly recently. He may have a lead.

    Cheers

    GC

  5. #5
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    Could the last letter be an H and not an E?

    Nothing is jumping out in the Bezdek German book. A curious note though is a very British looking Ketland type pommel and overall assembly in Medicus, sword 47b. Considering the variation found so far, we may be looking for even an American sourcing German blades. The join on the guard is crude on all three examples/variations of the guard I find so far, and all have no buttress at the right angle (which one might expect to see on British and continental work). With the letters etched into the gilt and coated, one would think done at the source of the blade decoration and not the end seller or cutler. Considering even late Spies and early Horstmann b&g with the capability to special order, why would it be any harder decades earlier. It could be blades getting used up but the crude assembly of the guard definitely works with the early B&G work.

    I yield

    Glen C.

  6. #6
    Glen,

    Thanks so much for all the information. I sent some photos to your email address that were too large to post here, maybe they'll show something useful.

    Best Regards,
    RJ

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    Hmmm mail server must be slow, as the mail hasn't popped up yet.

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    Apparently the forum mailer system is down, or disabled but I did receive the direct email this morning. You can open these images (right click) and see larger images.

    I really wish there was a comprehensive list of forge marks. These Solingen floral sprigs belong to individual forges within the guild. At least that is my understanding.


    I really kind of see an H here but that doesn't get me any closer in understanding who it represents.


    A couple of the hilt piccies



    Then the b&g. Looking early, as it has the straight finish with none of the scrolling stuff but some of the decorative motifs seem to last into the later fashions. We see this everywhere.


    Thanks for sharing this one and I hope someone can connect some dots. I feel like I am missing something obvious but I don't have a clue what that is. I hate when that happens

    Cheers

    GC
    Last edited by Glen C.; 12-10-2017 at 10:37 AM.

  9. #9
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    The swirl mark on the blade spine is common for Solingen makers. I've seen the same marking on French swords with German blades.

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    Cie, the French abbreviation for "company," is almost always depicted as an uppercase "C" followed by a superscript "ie" and would not include periods between the letters as shown on Robert's ricasso.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Mathieson View Post
    The swirl mark on the blade spine is common for Solingen makers. I've seen the same marking on French swords with German blades.
    There are a few variations of the mark and the mystery seems to remain regarding which mark is common to which maker(s), furbisher(s), exporter(s) but more specifically which forge within the guild.

    Cheers

    GC

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    My best guess on the store that sold it is one of the many fly by night partnerships that started just before and just after the militia act like my Cleveland and Hyde example. Very possible a three way partnership C and L and E. The maker or guild I agree could be determined by sprig on spine or the ricasso castle design. S&K, PDL and Smitchelbusch all used different designs. The ivory grips puts this one early and in the time frame of the Militia Act. Nice sword. Eric
    Last edited by Eric Fairbanks; 12-11-2017 at 07:47 PM.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  14. #14
    Everyone,

    Thanks so much for all the information and taking the time to reply. You've all taught me a lot with this thread.

    Best,
    RJ

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