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Thread: First Time Post! Radaelli, Parise, Solingen, US, Pineapples, & Hungarian Sabres!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    6

    First Time Post! Radaelli, Parise, Solingen, US, Pineapple epees & Hungarian Sabres!

    Hello all!

    What a start to the New Year!

    Talk is cheap, so I'll get straight in to posting some pictures of some sabres, blades, and a 1913 Patton Sabre mask I acquired and I'm trying to research on.

    • Where are they from?
    • What date might they be?
    • How much would/did you pay for them if collecting them?
    • Do you own something similar?
    • Etc.



    EDIT: Okay after trying to resize them I'm adding in these links to the pictures instead as the compression really removes important details...




    As for the attached files below, these are a matching pair (with spare blades, of which the two varieties can be seen in the above Various blades link) that I am selling (while I'd rather keep them as collection items) to a lovely local antiques dealer.
    However she has requested a ball park figure as to asking price, and I figured that while doing so I might as well do more research on them!
    What I know at the moment: They're a "Hungarian" style hilt I think, chromed steel, wood canted grip. Fittings also steel and were chromed at one point. One is in original condition, the other I carefully tried to stabilise. No markings on hilt parts. I'm thinking they're around the 1960s-70s?
    Also was going for an asking price of AUD200 each, is that about right or am I massively over inflating them?
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Last edited by SamGC; 01-05-2018 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Extra content.

  2. #2
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    And some more!

    Also, yes I am aware that on one of the Olympic sabres the pommel is on upside down.
    The threading in it only stays on when screwed on that way, otherwise the guard pops it off like a spring...
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  3. #3
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    And helmets!

    And here is the Patton fencing mask.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
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    12,016
    Welcome aboard. Cool stuff, especially the mask. Per the Please Read thread pinned to the top of this section, we don't do valuations. The best thing to do is seek out comparable items on auction or dealers and check sold prices. In general, fencing stuff doesn't bring a great deal of money, with even unusual examples a real niche market. Selling as a lot will probably net the quickest turnaround.

    Start here
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...um-PLEASE-READ!

    Cheers

    GC

  5. #5
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    Dec 2017
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    Hi Glen,

    Ah! Whoops! Sorry.

    Regardless, hopefully I can learn a bit more about each item from the experienced and wise people here!

    Cheers,
    Sam.

  6. #6
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    Location
    Nipmuc USA
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    I only recognize some of these in passing and had never seen a Patton mask before. I do have this saved from one of the several mensur threads in a separate subforum. I'm not sure how close to your context this old catalog page might be. IIRC, it is a WKC catalog page from about 1900.



    Browsing these two subforums back to the beginning may reveal some stuff
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/for...-Fencing-Forum
    http://www.swordforum.com/forums/for...-Swordsmanship

    At the bottom of those pages are drop down menus to view threads back to the start. Otherwise they'll appear as empty. I believe the default view is only one month, so the old stuff doesn't pop right out. There are only 87 threads in the classical fencing room but many more in the HES room.

    Cheers

    GC

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    6
    Hi Glen,

    Thanks! Do you think it's possible to cross-post this thread to the Classical Forum, it looks like it could use some attention!

    I'll see if I can get better pictures of the more complete mask and I'll post them here.

    As for my own reading, the only identifying stuff I've found in English (or at least clear enough in another language that it was obvious) were these, hence my comment on a Parise sabre.

    Still no clue as to the history of the SZERMIERZ marking...
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    213
    Hello,

    interesting accumulation of fencing articles. I can shed some light at least on some of them.
    a) The "Szermierz" marking is Polish and means "Fencing".
    b) The "ladder-mark" belonged to Filiberto Sauro in Verona.
    c) The Three-legged-Mark with the letters "CJF" is a bit more complicated. The mark was first entered in the Solingen register of marks in 1864 by Joerges and Falkenberg. So the letters stand for their names. Unfortunately I have no idea what the "C" means.
    d) The "Conti Milano" epee blade dates to the early 1950ies when this style of tip came into fashion.

    Hope to have helped a bit.

    All the best

    William
    C-Trainer Fechten

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    6
    Hi William,

    Wow, thank you so much! Yes that does help greatly, it certainly makes me want to hold on to them now that's for sure.
    Do you have any sources I might be able to go to to read about some of those companies and get some approximate dates for them? I would laugh if some of these are over 100 years old! Doubt it though.

    If you remember anything more, or want some more pictures, please let me know!

    Cheers,
    Sam.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    213
    Hi Sam,

    no problem
    Sources are very scarce in this area of collecting. I'm researching fencing weapons (mainly epees and foils) for over 10 years now and try to gather material on the different manufacturerers and vendors. It's not easy because most of the time the fencers stood in the limelight and not the ones producing the weapons for them. But you can find a bit using google. Regarding dates (only estimates):
    The "Szermierz" is most probably a bit more modern, I guess 1960ies or something. The "Conti-Milano" is late 1940ies/1950ies, as well as the other pineapple-tipped epee blade. On Joerges and Falkenberg I have no detailed information except what I have told you already. Here extensive research could be done at the Solingen city archive. But I rarely have time to go there. But I guess that the blade with the three-legged marking is mid- to late 19th century. Filiberto Sauro more late 19th than early 20th century, because he later produced blades himself.
    The Radealli-sabres are early 20th century I guess.
    Interesting is the style of the other epee with the finger loop. I haven't seen anything like it before. Are there any markings on this weapon?
    Have a nice day

    William
    C-Trainer Fechten

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