Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: US saber model 1902

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75

    US saber model 1902

    Friends, I have in the collection of the US saber model 1902.
    Production "M.S. Meyer INC.", but I would like to clarify the production period of this saber.
    On the blade, there is an inscription: "MADE USA".
    I read somewhere that with such an inscription Meyer produced sabers in the period from 1939 to 1946 - is this true?
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Just recently I bought a belt for a sword, white color.
    Belt buckle is also produced by «MS Meyer INC.».
    But I did not miss any information on this belt - what is the production period, what kind of troops or this belt for the cadets of military academies?
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    I found a photo of a cadet with a similar belt, only the US emblem is not visible on the buckle.
    Is this a belt?
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by Vladimir Sukhomlinov; 06-06-2018 at 11:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Thank you in advance for everyone who showed interest in my topic.
    Sincerely, Vladimir.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Annandale, VA
    Posts
    784
    I do not believe the ornament is original to the belt buckle. I believe your outfit started out as the plain-buckled rig as in your photo with the cadet, and at some point after 1950 someone added a US Air Force enlisted dress uniform hat ornament to it. Here is a photo of the ornament:


    Name:  USAF Enlisted Dress Uniform Hat Ornament.JPG
Views: 146
Size:  36.1 KB

    As for the sword, there are other more knowledgeable members than myself who might be able to give you an authoritive answer, but I have always associated these "MADE USA"-stamped swords with a somewhat earlier period, i.e. the 1920s-1930s. I really don't have any firm evidence to support this impression.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Richard, thank you very much for your reply.
    It turns out that the design of the buckle is not the original, but the belt of the course of the military academy - now I will know what belt I have.
    As for the inscription: "MADE USA"
    I heard such a version - Meyer was a dealer who bought blades sabers in Germany, and then sold finished products in the US, but when the Nazis came to power in Germany, he, that would not bind his products to the Nazi regime in Germany, became cliches knock out the inscription: "MADE USA", to show that the blade is not German, but how accurate this version, I do not know.
    The Nazis came to power in 1933, but why the period was mentioned exactly from 1939 to 1946, I do not know, perhaps this period was connected with the persecution of Jews in Germany.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    677
    Hello Vladimir, There is a lot about the M1902 here,; it is not in any type of order so you will have to wade through it. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...litary+schools
    Your sword was made by Lilley-Ames (L-A), Columbus OH, and was distributed by N.S. Meyer in the mid 1930's. Meyer DID NOT make anything. L-A private labeled swords for several firms, including Hilborne and Hamburger, Gaunt, C.E. Ward, Rowland, etc.
    A little known fact L-A imported blades made by Carl Eickhorn of Solingen and marked assembled swords marked Made in USA. The blades have the Eickhorn etching pattern on them. This should be discussed elsewhere.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by T. Graham View Post
    Hello Vladimir, There is a lot about the M1902 here,; it is not in any type of order so you will have to wade through it. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...litary+schools
    Your sword was made by Lilley-Ames (L-A), Columbus OH, and was distributed by N.S. Meyer in the mid 1930's. Meyer DID NOT make anything. L-A private labeled swords for several firms, including Hilborne and Hamburger, Gaunt, C.E. Ward, Rowland, etc.
    A little known fact L-A imported blades made by Carl Eickhorn of Solingen and marked assembled swords marked Made in USA. The blades have the Eickhorn etching pattern on them. This should be discussed elsewhere.
    Tim, thanks for the answer and the link to the topic on the sword 1902.
    I had a few questions related to your answer:

    - By what signs can you determine that the saber manufacturer is Lilley-Ames (L-A), Columbus OH, because there is not any brand of this manufacturer on the blade?
    Or did Meyer buy the sabers produced by Lilley-Ames and put his trademark for sale?
    *
    - What was the inscription "Made in the USA" on the blade? what would show that this is an American assembly?

    - I also made some photos of the etching image on the blade of my saber (though the quality of the photos is not very good) - is this typical etching of Aikhorn?
    Attached Images Attached Images       

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    I'm also interested in the cases in which such sabers were worn by officers of the US Army - for solemn events or in guards?
    I have a photo of an American officer with such a sword, but on his tunic there are not any identifying signs of his belonging to any kind of troops.

    Thankful in advance for answering my questions.
    Sincerely, Vladimir.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Birmingham Alabama
    Posts
    1,329
    Vladimir; I was a US Army Officer, the swords were rarely worn, except for formal occasions when required. Used mainly for weddings and funerals and what is called; "Officers' Call" a formal event at the Officers' club, which was not often..

    As an aviator, we adopted the traditions of the Cavalry, and I personally carried a US M 1872 saber, not really authorized, but no one really cared all that much. If I had a real choice for actual combat use, a good Shingunto is what I would carry.

    Dale

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Martin View Post
    Vladimir; I was a US Army Officer, the swords were rarely worn, except for formal occasions when required. Used mainly for weddings and funerals and what is called; "Officers' Call" a formal event at the Officers' club, which was not often..

    As an aviator, we adopted the traditions of the Cavalry, and I personally carried a US M 1872 saber, not really authorized, but no one really cared all that much. If I had a real choice for actual combat use, a good Shingunto is what I would carry.

    Dale
    Dale, thanks for your reply.
    Sincerely, Vladimir.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hudson OH
    Posts
    677
    If the ricasso is marked "Made in USA" it was made by Lilley-Ames. The blade etching is the M.C. Lilley pattern. L-A used it mostly,but the Ames type II and the Eickhorn show up now and then. Meyer and the other retailer/distributors would order sword with their name or trade label on them.
    The fellow in the photos is model, possibly a cadet, showing saber drill. He is wearing a British Sam Browne belt. Note: the "D" ring on the bottom of the belt and the hook attached to the belt.
    The major user of 02s are cadets. I wore one at Culver Military Academy, Summer Cavalry School. It was made by Eickhorn.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Vladivostok, Russia
    Posts
    75
    Tim, thanks for your explanations.
    Sincerely, Vladimir.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •