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Thread: "DONNE PAR LE ROI" again!

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb "DONNE PAR LE ROI" again!

    Fellows: I have found another "Given by the King", French Saber, this one is in a German/Bavarian Scabbard, which fits nicely, and the grip need re-wrapping with the correct wire, but it was cheap.

    According to published sources, this type along with the Cavalrie and Artillerie models were given to the highest rated graduates of the French Military Academy, one presumes St Cyr.

    The same source said that between 1822 and 1830, less than 800 of all types were presented. I cannot find the online page any longer, but it was in France...It might have been a link on Le Hussard ??

    In any case, my Wife wanted this one to replace the Cavalrie Saber I traded off here with the same motto...

    I liked the Saxon Garde Reiter Saber that I got in trade for that one...

    Dale
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  2. #2
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    This French model sword was favored by some officers in the American Civil War for being a rather solid, serviceable sword. How does it handle?
    Tom Donoho

  3. #3
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    Tom, This is the Mle 1821, which is about the same as the Mle 1845, which was the model used by the combatants in that war. This model is particularly nice and easy to handle, not like the infamous Bancal or the Wrist Breaker...

    Dale

  4. #4
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    Horstmann also made a few of these and I have seen a number of pommels and parts dug in Texas along with a complete sword claimed to be from San Jacinto. A very beautiful fluid sword that never gained popularity here but could have. I have only seen a couple in Civil War images. All minus the "For the King".
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  5. #5
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    "Given by the King" but I never studied French...

    I am not sure why the adopted the Mle 1845, other than an additional branch on the guard, it was virtually the same thing..

    There are so many variations that one cannot keep up with all the different incarnations of some swords..

    Dale

  6. #6
    Dale,

    The blade on the M1845 is quite different to the M1821.It is less much less curved,more rigid and has a distinctive ''carp's tongue'' point.It's definitely more of a thrusting weapon than the M1821.
    Some good examples in previous posts; http://www.swordforum.com/forums/sho...ench+1845%2F55
    Niall Dignan

  7. #7
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    Hi Dale,

    These were given to graduate of the St-Cyr school as well as the Volontaires de la charte, not to the best students but all graduates. Not sure where the number 800 comes from, but they turn up fairly frequently in French auctions.

    I agree with Nidall, there are major differences between the 1821 and 1845. The US 1850 is actually an hybrid between the 1845s guard and the 1821s blade (with some slight modifications).

  8. #8
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    Dale,

    Ah, ha. Perhaps I said 1821 as I saw a for sale ad years ago saying it was carried in the ACW--I suppose that is possible. I do recall reading (not the same ad) that the French model swords carried in the ACW did find favor as being sturdy. The one discussed here remains, IMO, a handsome sword.

    I just checked Peterson's book on American swords. He states that a popular non-reguation sword with officers during the ACW was one modeled on the French 1821 saber (single branch hilt)--the difference being in blade decoration and some having pipe back blades.
    Last edited by T. Donoho; 08-26-2018 at 10:36 PM.
    Tom Donoho

  9. #9
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    I do not collect sabers, but I wouldn't mind having one ike this.
    Tom Donoho

  10. #10
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    These and the French officers seem to go for the cheap and it is a shame as both are beautiful swords. Perhaps Donnie and LeRoy can get them in the game. I think Richard Schenck has a Hortsmann made mle 1821 he should give me. Eric
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Fairbanks View Post
    These and the French officers seem to go for the cheap and it is a shame as both are beautiful swords. Perhaps Donnie and LeRoy can get them in the game. I think Richard Schenck has a Hortsmann made mle 1821 he should give me. Eric
    I do indeed. It is one of my favorites. Although it is usually thought of as a CW import, it appears to have been imported and sold to militia officers rather earlier than that. My example is stamped “HORSTMANN/BROS & CO” on the obverse ricasso; the reverse ricasso is stamped “NEW YORK”. Horstmann used this address marking from 1850-1852.


    Name:  Horstmann Mle 1821 1.jpg
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  12. #12
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    Now thats smokin hot.
    The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." --- Tench Coxe

  13. #13
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    That is a beautiful saber. What is its weight, please?
    Tom Donoho

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