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Thread: Shakudo patina?

  1. #1

    Shakudo patina?

    As far as my knowledge goes:

    Shakudo is made by adding 4% fine gold to copper (melting)...

    And it has to be "patinated" to become the desireable black/blue stuff... if not it looks somewhat like plain copper...

    I want to get a color/patina like seen on the picture below...

    Questions:
    - HOW to develope this kind of patina?
    - Is it possible to come CLOSE to this using plain copper or other materials ?





    Thanks


    Daniel
    Daniel Gentile
    RONIN - Japanese Swords

    http://www.ronin.to
    -------------------------------------
    Open Your Eyes
    Live The Moment
    From Nothing Into Nothing

  2. #2
    Best way to patinate it...leave it alone. Seriously, at 4%, even at 3%, the stuff patinates really quickly (any higher than this would be a waste of gold and probably inhibit the fast natural patination process). Atmospheric oxygen is enough to give it that rich blue/black color that is so desirable. Hell, a natural patina is much better and more durable than the chemical patination (like a month or two's worth of stand alone oxidation). I don't think copper will patinate like shakudo does. Shakudo has a depth of color about it that's richer than just plain copper.

  3. #3
    Jesse,

    thanks...
    I shall try this next time I melt some stuff together (unfortunatly that little bit of gold is still somewhat expensive... specially if you're still in the "experimental"-stage with it )

    anyway... to turn copper BLACK... what do I need to do
    (I've got a load of copper standin' around in my shop (got it for almost nothin') but I do not like it much to use as plain colored copper... black would be really nice ...
    I know there're some chemical mixtures out there to do it... but I have no real idea what works and how


    Daniel
    Daniel Gentile
    RONIN - Japanese Swords

    http://www.ronin.to
    -------------------------------------
    Open Your Eyes
    Live The Moment
    From Nothing Into Nothing

  4. #4
    I got some copper in my shop getting black colored, takes some time though.
    I also have a copper habaki on a blade, thats got some black in it.
    A slow patination is usually a bit better, I agree.
    For quick, you might try soaking in vinegar, I think I did that one, not sure though. Ask Brian Vanspeybroeck, hes played around with patinations a lot.
    Joe Renner

    "While the man can bring balance to a sword, it will ultimately bring balace to him"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    1,927
    Originally posted by Daniel Gentile
    Jesse,

    thanks...
    I shall try this next time I melt some stuff together (unfortunatly that little bit of gold is still somewhat expensive... specially if you're still in the "experimental"-stage with it )

    anyway... to turn copper BLACK... what do I need to do
    (I've got a load of copper standin' around in my shop (got it for almost nothin') but I do not like it much to use as plain colored copper... black would be really nice ...
    I know there're some chemical mixtures out there to do it... but I have no real idea what works and how


    Daniel
    Daniel
    Depending on the textures involved you can indeed get the plain copper to look just like shakudo. Its best with flat or satin type textures as those obsure much of the overtones. All out full polished will show the hue differences to the extreme and is pretty much impossible to duplicate. I can tell you how to do it though I would rather not post it on a public board. I dont want there to be a sudden rash of fake cheap shakudo parts coming out of china hehe.
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    1,927
    Originally posted by Jesse Pelayo
    Best way to patinate it...leave it alone. Seriously, at 4%, even at 3%, the stuff patinates really quickly (any higher than this would be a waste of gold and probably inhibit the fast natural patination process). Atmospheric oxygen is enough to give it that rich blue/black color that is so desirable. Hell, a natural patina is much better and more durable than the chemical patination (like a month or two's worth of stand alone oxidation). I don't think copper will patinate like shakudo does. Shakudo has a depth of color about it that's richer than just plain copper.
    Jesse location and atmosphere have a large part in how fast the shakudo will patina. In my area 4 percent will not patinate naturally even after 8 months. yet it will take a wonderful chemical patina in under a minute. you live in a highly polluted suburban area full of reactive agents Amonia and salt content are high in your area of the state along with sulfurs. Amonia is a key ingredient of most techniques for coloring shak. I have bare silver copper and shakudo some of which has been sitting exposed in my shop for over a year. No tarnish or patina to speak of. So natural patina is not an option for for everybody. It can be misleading If you are sure it should be darkening on its own and it does not. You may simply not have enough Crap in your air and your alloy is fine.
    Just some thougts to chew on.
    Patrick Hastings
    "A man without patience lives in hell"
    "He o hitte
    shiri Tsubome"

  7. #7
    Patrick,

    I've just sent you an E-Mail...

    Well I too do not want to encourage the chinese, to produce more fake stuff... so I guess E-Mail suits better


    Daniel
    Daniel Gentile
    RONIN - Japanese Swords

    http://www.ronin.to
    -------------------------------------
    Open Your Eyes
    Live The Moment
    From Nothing Into Nothing

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