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Thread: what is difference btw PC, LL, Cold Steel, Bugei etc?

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    225
    I think production blades are around because there was a market for them. There are people that have an avid interest in swords, but perhaps lack the funding or willingness to acquire a custom piece. When I first began my love affair with Chinese swords and Japanese katana I was in high school working at a local hollywood video. I would argue that my dedication and interest in blades was (and still is) incredibly high. I am thankful there were low end production swords for me to start off with. Or what about all the people out there making minimum wage, trying to support their families? A close friend of mine is in a situation like this and he loves swords. He reads about them and trains with his wooden swords every spare moment he gets, but he simply cannot afford a custom sword. $15000 a year and he is supposed to save up for a custom or get a new hobby? This hardly sounds fair. (A group of us pooled our funds together and got him a Bushido for his last birthday though).

    As for custom blades performing better and lasting longer, that is probably true. It better be when they are thousands of dollars! But some people will never need the "long lasting-ness" of a custom sword. And a lot of people will not notice the difference in performance because their skill level may not yet be high enough. The sword may never get pushed to the limit. So a productions sword would be a good choice.

    Also, as I purchased more and more production blades I learned more and more about swords. Naturally my taste is more refined now and I hardly glance twice at a Paul Chen Practical or Shinto, etc. But those first swords I had were learning experiences and they made me very happy at the time of purchase. I think that without production swords being available to people, the sword market in general (including the custom arena) would shrivel up and die.

    Just my thoughts on the topic. I just think everyone should be able to enjoy swords at whatever level they choose to enjoy it at. Some people are weekend warriors and the some are content with nothing less than Excalibur. To each his own.

  2. #52

    Speaking of Howard Clark blades...

    Speaking of Howard Clark blades approx what price range they start at? anyone know?
    Hume teaches us that no matter how many times you drop a stone and it falls to the floor, you never know what'll happen the next time you drop it. It might fall to the floor, but then again it might float to the ceiling. Past experience can never prove the future.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In the US on the east coast of SC
    Posts
    952

    Re: Speaking of Howard Clark blades...

    Originally posted by Troy Raines
    Speaking of Howard Clark blades approx what price range they start at? anyone know?
    A katana starts around $3000. That's for a bare, unpolished blade strait from Howard.
    Still trying to remember where I was when god was handing out brains.

  4. #54

    Howard Clark blades

    Thank you for your reply, bugei's site did not have any details listed at all ; price, options nothing. Do you have to pay the whole thing up front or do you do installments? Id hate to pay all upfront and have to wait a VERY long time before I recived it. College classes cost money rent cost money, which is more important rent or high end sword? Sword of course.
    Hume teaches us that no matter how many times you drop a stone and it falls to the floor, you never know what'll happen the next time you drop it. It might fall to the floor, but then again it might float to the ceiling. Past experience can never prove the future.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    225
    I don't think Bugei sells them anymore. I believe you would have to go straight through Howard Clark. I'm not completely sure, but when I was looking into it I think I remember one being able to pay a fraction of the cost upfront and commit the rest later. I'll have to check again.

    http://www.liveblade.com/customsword/customusa.html

    This site might have some Clark blades in stock.

  6. #56

    Clark blades

    If you do find out more, please post it or in order to have less clutter please feel free to pm me if you want, in the mean time ill keep searching. Thank you for your reply.
    Hume teaches us that no matter how many times you drop a stone and it falls to the floor, you never know what'll happen the next time you drop it. It might fall to the floor, but then again it might float to the ceiling. Past experience can never prove the future.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North Cal
    Posts
    225
    ur best bet is to go straight to the source

    www.mvforge.com

    i believe the waiting time is 18 months or so.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
    Posts
    42

    hrmmm

    can anyone say "hijack"?

  9. #59

    hijack?

    ?
    Hume teaches us that no matter how many times you drop a stone and it falls to the floor, you never know what'll happen the next time you drop it. It might fall to the floor, but then again it might float to the ceiling. Past experience can never prove the future.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    225
    Just wondering, I know that most of these production swords are intended for cutting soft targets as are REAL weapons. Here is my questions though, how durable are they in terms of steel on steel contact? Would they hold up as well as a properly made antique sword? And for that matter, how well does a real antique sword hold up to parrying etc?

  11. #61
    Hehe... yeah, the REAL question is, "Will it cut through an AK-47?"

  12. #62

    "Real?"

    The samurai sword was designed to cut FLESH quickly and cleanly. It was not designed as an AX.

    Human bodies would fall into the "soft to medium" target group....if I am not mistaken.

    With proper technique, many samurai swords of yesteryear were tested by cutting through *several* bodies at once.


    JB
    Last edited by J. Boschert; 03-26-2005 at 01:28 PM.

  13. #63
    I really do think you need to look at the Generation2 BWT katana again.
    No it does not have the beautiful hamon line like most but it is a true temper line just the same. They do have the steel Kashira and a better tip line.
    Not to mention the two new tsubas available.

    Clyde

  14. #64
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2
    ok first, Im a newbie on the site. second, Ive been practicing a few sword related martial arts (iaido, kendo, kenjitsu) for about three years now, and my need for a sword has been burning inside me. Now Im pretty poor, so Ive narrowed my choices to these:

    paul chen practical plus
    cold steel warrior
    last legend (low end)

    now heres what ive heard. Ive heard the pc's have quality problems with fittings and the blades arent always sharp, however there is a temper line. Ive heard the cold steels cut well but have no hamon, and are a problem to sharpen. Ive heard the LLegends are not traditional in appearance (how is this?) but are sturdy and cut pretty well. Is this all true? my main concern is quality and ability to cut, sturdiness and balance. overall, which would be the best buy? does anyone own all three types? also, Last legend has a new line of swords that arent the Mark I and II's...do they still have the same properties as the marks? i appreciate your help. thanks

  15. #65

    Cold Steel Warrior Review

    So I got my Cold Steel 88BK in the mail just yestarday and I've been testing it out. The sword cuts through gallon milk jugs easily, made 10 slices out of one jug. 1 to 2 inch rolled newspaper is no problem either. The blade is nice, bohi looks good and I kinda like the non-polished dull look.

    Complaints: The tusba is warpped, I am sure it's cast iron, but they can at least make a straight mold... The sword is a bit heavy for my taste, but I don't think I can get anything lighter than 2.6 lb for a katana. I am just too used to kendo sticks....

    One note from cutting rolled, wet newspaper is that you must wipe down your blade right away, the paint from the paper is apparently corrisive when it's wet?? I dunno, but it stained the blade, took me a while to get the stain off after it set in. So do it fast, have a cloth with you or something. Wipe it after a set of strikes.

    That is all for now, I will review the PC practical pro when it comes in the mail.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dothan, AL.
    Posts
    57
    Originally posted by Victor Hung
    I think production blades are around because there was a market for them. There are people that have an avid interest in swords, but perhaps lack the funding or willingness to acquire a custom piece. When I first began my love affair with Chinese swords and Japanese katana I was in high school working at a local hollywood video. I would argue that my dedication and interest in blades was (and still is) incredibly high. I am thankful there were low end production swords for me to start off with. Or what about all the people out there making minimum wage, trying to support their families? A close friend of mine is in a situation like this and he loves swords. He reads about them and trains with his wooden swords every spare moment he gets, but he simply cannot afford a custom sword. $15000 a year and he is supposed to save up for a custom or get a new hobby? This hardly sounds fair. (A group of us pooled our funds together and got him a Bushido for his last birthday though).

    As for custom blades performing better and lasting longer, that is probably true. It better be when they are thousands of dollars! But some people will never need the "long lasting-ness" of a custom sword. And a lot of people will not notice the difference in performance because their skill level may not yet be high enough. The sword may never get pushed to the limit. So a productions sword would be a good choice.

    Also, as I purchased more and more production blades I learned more and more about swords. Naturally my taste is more refined now and I hardly glance twice at a Paul Chen Practical or Shinto, etc. But those first swords I had were learning experiences and they made me very happy at the time of purchase. I think that without production swords being available to people, the sword market in general (including the custom arena) would shrivel up and die.

    Just my thoughts on the topic. I just think everyone should be able to enjoy swords at whatever level they choose to enjoy it at. Some people are weekend warriors and the some are content with nothing less than Excalibur. To each his own.
    I couldn't have said it better myself!

    I am deciding between a LL 3000 series and Paul Chen's Bushido Katana for what I consider my first quality production blade. The most I ever see myself spending anytime soon would be about $1000 on a Bugei Samurai. Anything beyond that would be a Howard Clark and seeing as he is not talking orders and will be busy till 2007, I am not even gonna think about getting one anytime soon.

  17. #67

    Paul Chen Practical Pro Review

    Oh man... that's just say that I resold it after I took a look at the sword.

    Horrible sword, the Ha (edge) wasn't uniformly sharp. It was dull near the guard and dull near the kissaki (point) (spelling?). The synthetic leather wrap looks awful (personal opinion) and the blade has a huge taper on it. The blade height goes from 1.5 inch at the guard to less than 1 inch near the point.

    The long handle must be an preference because when i swung it around, I keep catching the Tusba on myself. I guess it'll be better for a person with longer arms i.e. taller over all (I am 6')

    Well, that's my review for paul chen pro. I didn't own it long enough (1 day) to look at it in more detail.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4

    Cutting newspaper

    "One note from cutting rolled, wet newspaper is that you must wipe down your blade right away, the paint from the paper is apparently corrisive when it's wet?? I dunno, but it stained the blade, took me a while to get the stain off after it set in. So do it fast, have a cloth with you or something. Wipe it after a set of strikes".

    David, your right about this. My advice to everyone is not to cut wet newspaper anytime. I work in the newspaper industry and to put an image on paper requires the use of a fount solution that works along side with the ink. This can have an etching effect on something like fine sword steel. People could end up wrecking their blades doing this. When you wet the paper, the chemical is re-activated, hence the staining, or should I say, etching. Every time a cut is made, a little bit more steel disappears.
    Last edited by John L. W.; 06-06-2005 at 06:33 PM.
    This is something that requires thorough examination, with a thousand days of practice for training and ten thousand days of practice for refinement. "The Book Of Five Rings".

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    26
    I've gotta say, Nothing i've seen can compair to an original. The katanas that had been forged for the samuri. my grandfather's daisho is absolutly beautyful, only thing is, it's woth far too much for us to use.
    -jon

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    17
    Originally posted by Jon Seabra
    I've gotta say, Nothing i've seen can compair to an original. The katanas that had been forged for the samuri. my grandfather's daisho is absolutly beautyful, only thing is, it's woth far too much for us to use.
    "at least you have one"

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St Petersburg FL
    Posts
    78

    Sword Ratings

    My dojo periodically gets together to rate different swords. While everyone has their own opinion on what is better, we also compile weight and measurements on all the swords. We have only one purpose - we want better and more affordable swords for use in our martial art.

    http://208.63.68.209/sword_dimensions.htm

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    26
    Originally posted by Daniel Migliore
    "at least you have one"
    Their not that hard to find, just look around for Nihonto.
    One problem. The really nice ones cost more than my house, but their really really nice.
    -jon

  23. #73

    Re: Sword Ratings

    Originally posted by Mike Femal
    My dojo periodically gets together to rate different swords. While everyone has their own opinion on what is better, we also compile weight and measurements on all the swords. We have only one purpose - we want better and more affordable swords for use in our martial art.

    http://208.63.68.209/sword_dimensions.htm

    Hi, it's a great work, I looked longtime for a such review...thanks!

    I was about to buy a LL 3000 series Rônin 1090 Steel..but I saw that the new LL katanas are not as good as the old Mk I to VII series...so I'll wait to know more about this Katana which first pleased to me...

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St Petersburg FL
    Posts
    78
    the new LL katanas are not as good as the old Mk I to VII series
    We are trying to find out why that example of the new LL was inferior. The sad part is that it is actually my sword that we rated, and it was a gift from my wife . I had specifically asked for that sword, and it is not easy to explain why none of us liked it. Thank goodness she is part of the testing and understands. I hope....

    One of the testers had personally used a different LL from the new series, and was quite happy with it. It was his Mark VII we tested. He had been planning on getting the unfolded version of the same sword we testing, but has put that on hold for now. Unfortunately we can only rank the swords we gather together for our test. I’ll update the site if we get any new information.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    new engalnd
    Posts
    23

    ebay

    Actually for cold steel and some paul chen swords like the wind and thunder and the tsunami katana, you can get them from some dealers on ebay for half the cost.I know the wind and thunder was going for around $450.00.Just make sure you check the dealers feedback stats.I bought a cold steel imperial katana and it was very nice brand new as stated and arrived in excellent condition.It retails for over $800.00 and I got mine for $399.00 !!!!

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