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Thread: What's a Panzerstecher?

  1. #1

    What's a Panzerstecher?

    I saw this on a site called 'Arma Bohemia' (bottom):
    The bottom item.
    Here's a full length pic.

    The name means 'armor stabber'.
    How were these used historically?
    It looks kinda like a Beidenhaender with an extra-long hilt and no hooks, but the narrow blade and diamond geometry make me wonder if it's not something entirely different.
    Also, I had thought that Beidenhaenders were usually used to cut, with stabbing executed 'half sword' to pick out less-armored portions. The name suggests that stabbing at a weak point was this sword's primary function.

    My theorys:
    Perhaps the extra long handle allowed it to be used like a Beidenhaender held 'half sword'?
    Maybe it was a result of mine's-bigger-than-your's syndrome?
    Maybe it was meant to be used more like spear, but still technically be a sword (similar to number 1)?
    Could it just be a variation on a Beidenhaender?

    Any information on it's historical existance and use would be greatly appreciated. Information on the quality if this particular model, and Arma Bohemia in general would also be welcome.

  2. #2
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    Looks like an English Tuck on steroids
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

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  3. #3
    That's what makes me think the armor-piercing tactic (suggested in the name) would be accurate. But since I'v never heard of this historically, and I'm suspicious of the company's historical accuracy (look at what they call an estoc), I couldn't be sure.
    I also wonder if even with the long griep, it might be too long and have too frontal a balance to be used properly to do this.

  4. #4
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    Good lord... Perhaps not so much of "mine's bigger than yours" syndrome as it is "I like my personal space".
    "Let's be about it."
    -Honor Harrington

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    Idiots Unite.

  5. #5
    Well... on the other pages (notably the daggers), the English Tuck is also called a "Panzerstecher" - maybe it's just the purpose of the weapon? Also, it looks a bit like a lance if you discount all the fancy hilt stuff. Also, that 3 fullered training sword looks... interesting.

    The one Jake speaks of is a rapier?..... I would have thought it'd be a hybrid polearm / sword......
    Last edited by Alexander K Gee; 03-10-2005 at 09:54 PM.
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  6. #6
    I hadn't gotten to the daggers yet. Good point.

    I had always thought the lance to be significantly more shaft than tip, though?

    edit- Yeah, it's definatly not a rapier. I just figured it had been put on the wrong page. This happens in e-stores. Lutel, for example, has a two-handed saber in the daggers section.
    Last edited by JakeVanDam; 03-10-2005 at 10:03 PM.

  7. #7
    Good lord! If you curved that thing, Vampire Hunter D might ask for it back!

  8. #8
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    Oh dear: 247cm, converted that's 8'-10"... would anyone bother calling this thing a sword?
    curiosity may kill a cat so I guess I have 8 more questions...

  9. #9
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    Re: What's a Panzerstecher?

    Originally posted by JakeVanDam
    I saw this on a site called 'Arma Bohemia' (bottom):
    The bottom item.
    Here's a full length pic.

    The name means 'armor stabber'.
    How were these used historically?
    It looks kinda like a Beidenhaender with an extra-long hilt and no hooks, but the narrow blade and diamond geometry make me wonder if it's not something entirely different.
    Also, I had thought that Beidenhaenders were usually used to cut, with stabbing executed 'half sword' to pick out less-armored portions. The name suggests that stabbing at a weak point was this sword's primary function.

    My theorys:
    Perhaps the extra long handle allowed it to be used like a Beidenhaender held 'half sword'?
    Maybe it was a result of mine's-bigger-than-your's syndrome?
    Maybe it was meant to be used more like spear, but still technically be a sword (similar to number 1)?
    Could it just be a variation on a Beidenhaender?

    Any information on it's historical existance and use would be greatly appreciated. Information on the quality if this particular model, and Arma Bohemia in general would also be welcome.
    Jake,

    Panzerstecher is apparently an alternate term for what is generically called an estoc--a sword with an edgeless blade of square or triangular cross-section, used exclusively for thrusting. The word exists in several forms (estoc, estoque, stoccho, "tuck", etc), and while it usually applies to the type of sword described, it also is used to describe other types of swords of alternate form, that are still used predominantly for thrusting (such as Italian Type XVs).

    Early estocs were two-handed (though I've never seen one as long as the one in the link you provided), but later (late 16th/early 17th century), single-handed, saber-hilted varieties appeared, that were used by horsemen (like Poland's famed Winged Hussars).

    Hope this helps.

    Peace,

    David
    "Pray forget not to have your Broad-Sword, made according to my Pattern; for the Parliment has, and it will with your Postures in my wrestling-Book, cut the Small-Sword out of fashion" --Sir Thomas Parkyns, to Lord Thomas Manners, 1720


    "We begin with the Small-Sword, which we must allow to be the nearest Inlet to the relative Arts, and when we are upon the Back-Sword, their near Affinity will appear more clearly." --Captain John Godfrey, Treatise Upon the Useful Science of Defence, 1747

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