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Thread: hishigami

  1. #1
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    hishigami

    Hi,

    I'll be doing a wrap during the weekend on my LL tsunami ..finally.

    I have a slight problem with hishigami . How do you actually use them? Do you first make fold with one end of ito and then insert the paper wedge under it and make a fold with the another end of ito? Or do you simply put hishigami on the same and try to make a wrap over them ? . I tried it and well ... they seem to move a bit and I don't have 3 hands.

    If someone could give me a piece of advice about it ,I'd really appreciate.

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  2. #2
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    Re: hishigami

    Originally posted by Jan Kozierowski
    Hi,

    I'll be doing a wrap during the weekend on my LL tsunami ..finally.

    I have a slight problem with hishigami . How do you actually use them? Do you first make fold with one end of ito and then insert the paper wedge under it and make a fold with the another end of ito? Or do you simply put hishigami on the same and try to make a wrap over them ? . I tried it and well ... they seem to move a bit and I don't have 3 hands.

    If someone could give me a piece of advice about it ,I'd really appreciate.

    Jan
    the way keith larman explaine dit to me, is that they get inserted and "float"

    i think you end up making a fold, inserting, and then fold around it on the other side... then occasionally picks and needles are used to fix it if necessary...
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
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  3. #3
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    Thanks Jeff. That's what I wanted to know .

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  4. #4
    I always make the fold in the ito first making sure the crossover (the flip) is centered in the tsuka....like this:



    And then after it is all ready, I slide the hishigame under the ito and into the right place. Looks like this:



    Then, after the hishigame are placed, I fold the other ito from the other side over the top to lock it down. I pull it tight and try to be careful to apply equal pressure so that it tightens evenly and doesn't pull the foldover point up or down. Usually this entails a bit of coaxing of the hishigame with a sharp pick or dental tool to keep it centered correctly. Then when it's pretty tight and well placed I tap it with a little hammer about a dozen times to compress it and make sure there is no slack.

    Clamp it, roll it over and do the other side all the way down.....7mm at a fold.

    See? Simple.



    Brian

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Brian R. VanSpeybroeck
    [B]






    what are you using there? looks like some nifty wood and are those hishigame plastic??
    Last edited by Jeff Ellis; 03-16-2005 at 08:03 PM.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  6. #6
    I love Brians pics...They always look very well composed and clear...Time for a book with your tips in it Brian...

    Glenn

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by glenncollier
    I love Brians pics...They always look very well composed and clear...Time for a book with your tips in it Brian...

    Glenn
    and he always has some new experimental secret thing going on in them. kinda like patrick hastings... wait, tehy're good friends.. hmm.. conspiracy? i think not! hehehe
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  8. #8
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    Thanks Brian. Visual aids are always welcomed

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  9. #9
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    Jan, maybe you also try this link:

    http://www.jogibeer.de/katana/

    Click on "Tsukamaki" on the swordpic on top.
    Unfortunately it´s in german, but I think the pictures are quite
    understandable.
    In the section of the second step, he provides a link which
    is called "Papp-Unterlage" to a self-designed hishigami-aid.

    And this link as well:

    http://pages.prodigy.net/tlbuck/tsuka/tsuka.htm

    Regards,

    Markus

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Markus Sesko
    Jan, maybe you also try this link:

    http://www.jogibeer.de/katana/

    Click on "Tsukamaki" on the swordpic on top.
    Unfortunately it´s in german, but I think the pictures are quite
    understandable.
    In the section of the second step, he provides a link which
    is called "Papp-Unterlage" to a self-designed hishigami-aid.

    And this link as well:

    http://pages.prodigy.net/tlbuck/tsuka/tsuka.htm

    Regards,

    Markus
    keith larman told me that the only thing with that "pattern" is, that the hishigame are supposed to float, so the pattern kind of makes it harder to do proper tsukamaki...

    tho he did a very good job with it.. i suppose one could use a heavy enough paper/cardboard that it would simulate the real ones enough..

    oh, one last thing, be sure to start on the omote, so that the part of the ito that is flat with no folds on it by the fuchi is on the same side the kurikata is on.

    its tradition.
    Last edited by Jeff Ellis; 03-17-2005 at 07:28 AM.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Markus Sesko
    Jan, maybe you also try this link:

    http://www.jogibeer.de/katana/
    Is that Andi B.'s site? Yeah, it's a pretty good resource actually. So is the latter site.
    O, que sorpresa! Hay un gato en mis pantalones!
    Visit my not so awesome art here

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Jeff Ellis
    keith larman told me that the only thing with that "pattern" is, that the hishigame are supposed to float, so the pattern kind of makes it harder to do proper tsukamaki...

    tho he did a very good job with it.. i suppose one could use a heavy enough paper/cardboard that it would simulate the real ones enough..

    oh, one last thing, be sure to start on the omote, so that the part of the ito that is flat with no folds on it by the fuchi is on the same side the kurikata is on.

    its tradition.
    Yep ,I know where to start

    About that pattern . Not sure but I guess it will work fine on condition that the tsuka is completely straight .. just my thought .

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  13. #13
    I use black construction paper when I make the hishigame and also for the paper strips at the top and bottom of the tsuka core. The paper is laminated with wood glue or with silicon RTV…I’m actually liking the wood glue a bit more than the RTV lately especially for the hishigame. I make mine a little different in that I just fold a piece of paper over like 9 layers or so and calculate the width of the folds by how long I need my final “little triangles” to be. Usually about 9mm is standard but I’ll make a 100 of them in 8mm, 9mm, and 10mm each so have three slightly different sizes to try as the tsuka gets wider or narrower during the wrapping. Then I glue the last fold and end up with strip of 9 ply paper 11 inches long and I just layout and cut triangular shapes with the proper width of the base out of the strip with an Exacto knife….scissors don’t work so well for me.

    I don’t even like the dang things anymore….big pain in the %4*^&!! I have been playing with alternative wraps using jabaraito (string) in silk and leather and using flat tape wraps with paracord and they stay tighter, longer and look better, longer than stuff using hishigame. I *do* love the look of well done tsukamaki with crisp well shaped and symmetrical diamond openings and all that. But them little paper devils drive me nuts. They are great for developing patience and they are oh soooo traditional.



    But I liked the paracord wrap on this particular tsuka a lot more. I like the present incarnation of nylon flat string even better. I have a bunch of precut hishigame in black paper if somebody wants to try it. Lemme know and I’ll drop ‘em in the mail just to get rid of them.

    Brian

  14. #14
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    pm sent

    -Karl
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    Have a look around.....

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Alexander K Gee
    Is that Andi B.'s site?
    Sorry, I haven´t any info about him. I got the link to his
    site from a friend of mine quite a time ago...

    Regards,

    Markus

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Alexander K Gee
    Is that Andi B.'s site? Yeah, it's a pretty good resource actually. So is the latter site.
    Thank You - yes it's mine...

    If I've time I will try to translate it and then I will be grateful for every correction ;-)
    Best regards

    Andi B.

  17. #17
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    just wanted to say that wrap is almost complete .. I need to make only a knot ..from the pictures I've seen it's not gona be an easy task

    Not sure how the hell am I gonna pass the end of ito under the folds that were made earlier .The ito seems very tight ...

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  18. #18
    The ito will stretch a bit yet and allow the ends to be pulled underneath. Everybody uses their own way of getting it under there...it can be a tough and frusterating deal.

    My way of doing it is to get some heavy, curved sewing needles and then use them to pass a thin but strong string under the existing wrap being careful not to snag anything. Pass it under in two directions making a loop and then put the ito end through it and pull it (work it slowly and carefully) under the wrap. If you have some thin, flixible plastic sheet (like a film negative) and slip it under the existing wrap to keep the stuff you are pulling under from catching on the same' and getting all snagged up. It will also make it slide easier.

    Automotive places often have a set of "feeler gauges" which are varying thicknesses of stainless steel tapes...very thin, very flexible yet rigid enough to slip them under the existing wrap. Fabric/sewing places have things called a bodkin...a long, sometimes curved steel needle with a snagproof hook/latch assembly on the end and it works *goood* for this. I have sealed the end of the ito with super glue before to stop it from unraveling and also glued a little loop on the end and then used a curved bodkin to pull it under the wrap.

    Put a piece of tape on your kashira to keep from scratching it up with the needle or what ever you use to force/pull the ito under the wrap. And be careful of snagging/wrecking the ito at this point. You can wreck the whole deal at this point. But you knew that, right?



    ...and good luck!

    Brian

  19. #19
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    Thanks Brian . Very informative post . I'll get to doing it in a second . Well ,I hope I'll manage to do it. I'll surely post some pics tomorrow .

    Jan
    W&T arriving soon

  20. #20
    What a wonderful thread floated wayy down to the bottom.

    Reading through this thread I remembered where I got the idea for dental tools and using needles when doing this stuff.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Tommy Gilliam
    What a wonderful thread floated wayy down to the bottom.

    Reading through this thread I remembered where I got the idea for dental tools and using needles when doing this stuff.
    Dental tools eh, sounds like a pretty good idea, but i seem to use less tools now then i did when i first got going with ito maki, now all i use are strings and clamps, and sometimes plastic sheets for the end knot.
    Chibi Ken-shi

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  22. #22
    Hey Paul,

    Yep I use about 2 dental tools but mostly just my own that I made from copper wire that work great for me. One for pulling, one for pushing and one for tucking/straightening and a separate one for glue application.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Tommy Gilliam
    Hey Paul,

    Yep I use about 2 dental tools but mostly just my own that I made from copper wire that work great for me. One for pulling, one for pushing and one for tucking/straightening and a separate one for glue application.
    You shuldn't need to use the dental picks, though, if you wrap it right. only to straighten things out , otherwise just wrap until you are happy.

    I was once told that if you can move the ito with the picks, then the wrap is not tight enough.

    I was also told that glue was only ever applied only to the start and end of the wrap, not in between.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  24. #24
    I like using glue throughout. I use dental tools and a few of my own to tuck and hold up hishigami during certain parts. It's not a good idea period to pick at ito since you could snag it.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by Jeff Ellis
    I was once told that if you can move the ito with the picks, then the wrap is not tight enough.

    I was also told that glue was only ever applied only to the start and end of the wrap, not in between.
    Do you remember exactly where you heard this from, a book, a site, something? I was planning on buying a book or two on ito maki, but don't know what books are worth getting, i have no clue how glue was traditionally used, that's why i've never tried it, i'd like a book that explains that in detail.
    Chibi Ken-shi

    Race Sims
    Mclaren F1 `05 "Burn my Shadow"

    Ford RS200 backwards at the Ring
    CTDP F1 2006 Renault At Nurburgring
    Understeer is when you hit the guardrail with your front end. Oversteer is when you hit the guardrail with your rear end. Horsepower is how hard you hit the guardrail. Torque is how far you move the guardrail.

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