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Thread: Heart Of Swords at Soul Of Bushido???

  1. #26
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    Good catch! Didn't know about the steel issue. Sent the seller a question about the source of the steel, lets see what he says.
    A fencer of the woodchop school.

    Everyone fights. No-one quits. No-one gets left behind.

  2. #27
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    Wow!

    As someone who both sells and buys on eBay, I found his listings extremely confusing. He's listing multiple items in an auction format, instead of a store format.

    The "clearance" is even worse. He used the same photos in the other listings, but some of them were shown in in the premium listing (folded steel), some were shown in the economy (440 stainless) listing.

    It says that they are ready for tameshigiri, but then you have to request it sharpened???

    Also, all of the "happy" customers in the last year are all low # bidders. The last ones, that you can actually see some of the other things they've purchased (but not from this seller) haven't purchased anything else even remotely sword-related, except for the tatoo guy who bought another wall-hanger.

    Location now shows ?? ?? China Big suprise.
    "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in an attractive and preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

    Tracy

  3. #28
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    I know I contributed my part to this discussion, but we are well past the boundaries set in the forum rules on "No discussing eBay auctions"

    I'm reporting the thread and am going to let the mods do what ever they feel needs done.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  4. #29
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    drop the e bay slating

    but keep the topic open -

    theres lessons to be learned here for newbies if we tread carefully and keep discussing without the dissing -

    There was a guy on SFI last year , first time buyer who thought he'd bought
    a bargain priced nihonto off his brother in law - I think he paid $1800 for it
    anyway it was one of those $10 knock offs that have $100 shipping tags -

    I cannott imagine how hurt he was that a family member had taken advantage
    of him to this amount - goes to show that people can get ripped by more than just online auction sites - the original poster of this topic got it right - ask on SFI first -

    god knows how many dont ask and wide eyed - buy everything that the renn fayre trader or e - tailer says about his latest ' battle ready' piece -

    I know as I was one of the ones who ends up out of pocket by a few hundred
    bucks - it hurts like hell.

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  5. #30
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    Indeed Michael, you are right. The reason (as I understand it) for the forum is to help us newbies navigate the rocks and shoals of learning about this very subject. So as not to be fleeced by the unscrupulous sellers.

    Which is why I elected to buy a cheap, but recommended blade for my first Iaito. A Cheness. As everyone who commented on it has said, a basic, inexpensive blade, to get started with. Nothing fancy, but it should get me through the first stages of training.
    Then, depending on how it goes, maybe something similar as a live blade for cutting.
    Once my technique has improved from my current 'suck in the gut and swing' (Fat Bloke Ryu, I knew it was catchy!) style, maybe something a bit nicer.
    Who knows, maybe I'll be so happy with what I have, that they will do (my wife may hope so, but I don't think it has much chance of working out that way!).

    But without forums such as this, and free (but not inflammatory) discussion, how will we newbies learn?
    JMHO.
    Last edited by D J Rowberry; 01-12-2007 at 04:03 AM. Reason: once again, because I cannot spell.
    A fencer of the woodchop school.

    Everyone fights. No-one quits. No-one gets left behind.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis View Post
    I know I contributed my part to this discussion, but we are well past the boundaries set in the forum rules on "No discussing eBay auctions"

    I'm reporting the thread and am going to let the mods do what ever they feel needs done.
    Hi Jeff,

    Just to be clear on this, where is it stated that that there will be "No discussing ebay auctions" in the forum rules. I'm not trying to be a smartarse but if this is one of the guidelines for posting I think It should be a little clearer to new members.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.C.Smith View Post
    Hi Jeff,

    Just to be clear on this, where is it stated that that there will be "No discussing ebay auctions" in the forum rules. I'm not trying to be a smartarse but if this is one of the guidelines for posting I think It should be a little clearer to new members.

    It's not in the rules that I can find, but it is generally understood (and the mods have commented before, even closed threads like this one...) that discussing eBay sellers and auctions can actually be considered thread tampering by eBay, and that can cause legal problems.

    Look at how we are talking about the seller, if the seller saw this and decided that as a direct result of the thread their item did not sell, they could, in turn, go to eBay and complain, and eBay could, in turn, sue Sword Forum International, who, in turn, could either a) shut down, or b) (the unlikely scenario) sue the people that caused the tampering for their legal fees.

    Or eBay and the seller could just cut out the middle man and sue the individuals for damages.
    Last edited by Jeff Ellis; 01-12-2007 at 03:31 PM.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis View Post
    I know I contributed my part to this discussion, but we are well past the boundaries set in the forum rules on "No discussing eBay auctions"
    It's actually not that cut and dry. We do try to avoid discussing ongoing auctions. Another reason is that some do show up simply to advertise. Adrian's thoughts, that do address the issues Jeff has now shared are here

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=60717

    Cheers

    Hotspur; of course, endless bickering is a sure way to close a thread as well

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    but keep the topic open -

    theres lessons to be learned here for newbies if we tread carefully and keep discussing without the dissing -

    There was a guy on SFI last year , first time buyer who thought he'd bought
    a bargain priced nihonto off his brother in law - I think he paid $1800 for it
    anyway it was one of those $10 knock offs that have $100 shipping tags -

    I cannott imagine how hurt he was that a family member had taken advantage
    of him to this amount - goes to show that people can get ripped by more than just online auction sites - the original poster of this topic got it right - ask on SFI first -

    god knows how many dont ask and wide eyed - buy everything that the renn fayre trader or e - tailer says about his latest ' battle ready' piece -

    I know as I was one of the ones who ends up out of pocket by a few hundred
    bucks - it hurts like hell.

    Mick

    I agree that bringing to light some auctions like this are a good example of what to look out for. I also agree that there should be some etiquette to the discussion that way SFI does not become liable and we all loose our beloved community watering hole

    Maybe a sticky in this forum should advise on the Do's and Dont's of starting a thread or posting about E-bay auctions. Either hard fast rules or an etiquette lesson Otherwise, slander away...lol, J/K

    Blackwell

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    It's actually not that cut and dry. We do try to avoid discussing ongoing auctions. Another reason is that some do show up simply to advertise. Adrian's thoughts, that do address the issues Jeff has now shared are here

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=60717

    Cheers

    Hotspur; of course, endless bickering is a sure way to close a thread as well
    Thankyou to you both Glen & Jeff for taking the time to explain this.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis View Post
    It's not in the rules that I can find, but it is generally understood (and the mods have commented before, even closed threads like this one...) that discussing eBay sellers and auctions can actually be considered thread tampering by eBay, and that can cause legal problems.

    Look at how we are talking about the seller, if the seller saw this and decided that as a direct result of the thread their item did not sell, they could, in turn, go to eBay and complain, and eBay could, in turn, sue Sword Forum International, who, in turn, could either a) shut down, or b) (the unlikely scenario) sue the people that caused the tampering for their legal fees.

    Or eBay and the seller could just cut out the middle man and sue the individuals for damages.
    Fair enough. Even if a vendor (no-one in particular!) is selling cheap junk masquerading as the genuine article, and you could prove it in court if neccesary, once the lawyers get involved no-one is going to win, costs being what they are...
    As a friend of mine discovered, you can be 100% right, and still be ruined.
    JMHO.
    A fencer of the woodchop school.

    Everyone fights. No-one quits. No-one gets left behind.

  12. #37
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    Hi everyone,
    I also bought one folded Katana on e-bay about $300. I did not expect a nihonto ofcourse but it was so cheap, the blade ''ha'' was not straight and the koshirae was terrible. If you ask me it could cost only $30. You can be suspicious when you see the Paul Chen like tsubas on these swords.I have to admitt that I met with very good sellers too. Some chinese forges make good steel but they cna never give you a good crafted menuki, fuchi, kashira and tsuba. To get a shirasaya and mount it as you wish can be a better idea.

  13. #38
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    newbies, knowledge and the SFI search function

    where we messed up here was discussing a specific auction - thats what Jeff
    noticed had put us on dodgy ground with forum etiquette - and rightly so in todays litigation minefield .

    This is still the best place in the western hemisphere to learn about what not to spend your money and whats a gem of a blade - hands down .

    I know its a boring statement and been said a thousand times over - but the SFI search function is an excellent tool to aid knowledge , shape opinions etc -

    theres over 4 years of archived threads on there to trawl through .

    I totally reconmend any new collector to search out any potential sword they are thinking of buying by first reading all the SFI write ups on it .


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by D J Rowberry View Post
    Good catch! Didn't know about the steel issue. Sent the seller a question about the source of the steel, lets see what he says.
    A seller (no-one in particular!) sent an answer, saying that it was all a super secret age old family recipe. Wouldn't comment on where the blades were actually made, but insisted it was a secret Japanese blade steel mix.
    I believe I will think very carefully before committing to buy on Ebay...
    A fencer of the woodchop school.

    Everyone fights. No-one quits. No-one gets left behind.

  15. #40
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    basic spec info

    Unless your buying a known quantity like a PPK from a well known dealer -
    or cold steel series katana - ( you get the idea ) you have every right to enquire after the grade of steel used , what heat treating process was used etc - some sellers will have already had rockwell hardness scale test performed and will offer these figures up in his listings -

    pics of pretty ito wrapped tsuka and koshirea unrelated to the sword on offer are a smoke screen to dazzle the newcomer or the gift buyers out there -

    heres a good example of what you should get in answer to questions around the blade -

    " I was recently looking at a range of chinese katana new to the UK market - as they were new the specs available were pretty vague -

    " high carbon steel, real and prominent hamon , RC hardness of 60/40 "

    These swords sell around the $400 - $450 USD mark so at that price people feel the need for a bit more information - I relayed this back to the seller and he promised to speak to the manufacturer and would obtain the actual production materials and forging process analysis - what info I got back was

    AISI 1060 carbon steel, clay coated diff hardened blade ,hamon revealed by a dilution of ferric not stone polishing -

    how refreshingly honest this was - I had heard enough good feedback from forumites who deal with the guy in the real world to not question at all his
    honesty and sincerity - but alas a good experience like this is thin on the ground .

    all to often its a case of " its an old family recipe " or "sorry - our polishing process is a secret " - trust cuts both ways - I wouldnt trust anyone who didnt trust me !!


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  16. #41
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    Thank you Michael, some good points there. A very valid one about trust, I thought.
    I have elected to buy a Cheness iaito 28" deluxe from a fellow who imports them into Australia. This should see me through the initial stages of training, according to the reports here. Nothing fancy, but a solid, workman like blade, which has been spoken of highly for its value for money and affordability.
    But that's not the reason for the leap. He has offered to send it on 'spec'. If I don't like it, I can send it back, no questions asked. Or I can just pay the invoice. That sort of trust is inspiring...

    Then, lots of study before the eventual purchase of a live blade for the cutting phases of training.
    Last edited by D J Rowberry; 01-14-2007 at 05:20 AM. Reason: Once again, because I cannot spell.
    A fencer of the woodchop school.

    Everyone fights. No-one quits. No-one gets left behind.

  17. #42
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    yep

    i was going to order a blade from them actually. i talked to the owner for awhile, and he told me everything. good guy, will customize anything that you want. i was going to order mine with silver seppa and habaki. i asked him how durable the blades are, and he said that they sure as hell cut!

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