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Thread: Oni-Forge Shobu Zukuri...

  1. #51
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    protection

    SFI has to protect itself from claims in the courts of libel and slander - hence the closing of threads that hint at Lorens
    dis-honesty and bad business practice .

    Its one thing to have threads that question cheness's tsuka issues
    thats all ok and above board .

    But when you have threads that question a persons honesty with
    people offering up character impressions that maybe wrong - maybe right - well then your opening yourself up to a libel action.

    discussing cheness & tsuka may make the factory focus more on quality - discussing someones honesty may ruin their future ability to make a living .

    I am not defending Loren - far from it , but lets drop the SFI is complicit stuff as its not true and will get this thread locked .

    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 08-26-2007 at 08:42 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  2. #52
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    I'm Chill'in
    Last edited by J. Hedgespeth; 08-26-2007 at 03:51 PM. Reason: I'm supposed to be nice...That is what Mom said!..But Dad disagrees from time to time! :)
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    SFI has to protect itself from claims in the courts of libel and slander - hence the closing of threads that hint at Lorens
    dis-honesty and bad business practice .

    Its one thing to have threads that question cheness's tsuka issues
    thats all ok and above board .

    But when you have threads that question a persons honesty with
    people offering up character impressions that maybe wrong - maybe right - well then your opening yourself up to a libel action.

    discussing cheness & tsuka may make the factory focus more on quality - discussing someones honesty may ruin their future ability to make a living .

    I am not defending Loren - far from it , but lets drop the SFI is complicit stuff as its not true and will get this thread locked .

    Mick
    Normally moderators post why they are closing the thread. If people are out of line then they will be none the wiser till someone says something.

    My point is, I know Loren is probably just busy, and as I have told him in many e-mails I understand how crazy it is to run a small business. Been there done that, I just want him to throw me a freaking bone on what's going on that's all.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  4. #54
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    I would like to just ask based on the good comment of the threads being locked due to protect SFI from Libel and Slander why is it that others can have the character and business practices be subject to disspute and personal comments made about deception, lying and many other implications with no recourse to those threads.
    Brian D

  5. #55
    This is the legal definition of slander...
    SLANDER - A false defamation (expressed in spoken words, signs, or gestures) which injures the character or reputation of the person defamed; distinguished from libel.

    This is the legal definition of libel...
    A false publication, as in writing, print, signs, or pictures, that damages a person's reputation. The act of presenting such material to the public

    Unfortunately, as much as we would like them to be, none of what is written falls under these legeal definitions. From my experience and from others on and off this board everything that has been said, though in a negative manner I am sure can be proven and backed up with proof. At least on my end and with others that I know personally who have dealt with Loren.

    I wish Loren the best, but his current business practices speak for themselves.
    Dale Joseph
    Jinenkan Butoku Dojo

  6. #56
    Well I jsut e-mailed Loren and Left a message on his phone stating that if he doesn't refund me in Full the $2800 I sent him. (As I have not received anything not my product nor any replies and/or updates) I will notify both the northridge authorities as well as my own.
    I suggest you guys do the same as its clear he's not gonna pull through any time soon.
    Quite Frankly I'm fed up. I used to be one of the guys that would stand for loren, but I have now realized that I was wrong . And as Such, Enough is enough.
    Last edited by Ian Alexander; 08-27-2007 at 11:19 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Alexander View Post
    Well I jsut e-mailed Loren and Left a message on his phone stating that if he doesn't refund me in Full the $2800 I sent him. (As I have not received anything not my product nor any replies and/or updates) I will notify both the northridge authorities as well as my own.
    I suggest you guys do the same as its clear he's not gonna pull through any time soon.
    Quite Frankly I'm fed up. I used to be one of the guys that would stand for loren, but I have now realized that I was wrong . And as Such, Enough is enough.
    Ian,

    Sent you a PM, let's get together on this.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  8. #58
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    Holy crap people this is way off topic. I would appreciate it if you guys would continue this discussion in a new thread. Thank You

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  9. #59
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    Sorry B. you know how this gets started. One little detour and then, bam. But back to topic. Any news from Loren or are you seeking other avenues now?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lim View Post
    Sorry B. you know how this gets started. One little detour and then, bam. But back to topic. Any news from Loren or are you seeking other avenues now?
    No problem Tom, I understand completely

    Well I got some replies back from Loren but everytime I try to get a tracking# (because he swears he shipped it) he doesn't respond. Going to call him today and see if I can incite a response.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  11. #61
    B, could it be that the tsuka you've ordered came from an old garage where all spare-parts kept for later "customer replacement parts" issue? Since we really don't know what's going on in the background, I would re-check it with the supplier!

  12. #62
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    B,Blackwell & B,Drier and co -

    I do apologise if I sounded like I was defending Oni forge or defending the locking of threads without explanation ,

    indeed my only desire is to keep the thread open as along as possible so if its open and on the first page others can read whats going on here as well -

    until I started reading the " is oni forge closing " threads and read what was happening with Mr Blackwell and other forumites orders
    I almost parted with $499 for an oni kyiomaru - that would have been money tossed away by the looks of things .

    hence my eagerness to keep this thread open and on the 1st page.

    I will say thsi though - if a business knows its got no way of making delivery or making good on outstanding orders - to carry
    on accepting payment for new orders isnt just self destructive
    its actually something far more serious and the proper authorities
    need to be notified .

    I do sincerely apologise if I sounded like an advocate of deception and bad business practices .

    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 08-29-2007 at 03:31 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  13. #63
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    Been watching the ebay sales and it is taking almost a month for the buyers to get their purchases. But, they ARE getting their purchases. So, why aren't you? That would be my question.
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shany G. View Post
    B, could it be that the tsuka you've ordered came from an old garage where all spare-parts kept for later "customer replacement parts" issue? Since we really don't know what's going on in the background, I would re-check it with the supplier!
    Shany,

    Not sure what you are talking about here. I'm not getting another tsuka re-sent to me. He's supposed to give me an entirely new sword, which is what I requested. I have also marked the old one in case he tries to return it with a new tsuka I will know.

    Mick,

    No problem man I totally understand why you brought that point up and I appreciate it because it made me take a step back and make sure I didn't say something that would later get me in trouble. I too want to keep this thread open as long as possible, people need to know what's going on.

    J,

    The e-bay sales are getting their stuff because otherwise he would get negative feedback if he ****ed it up on that end. Buying directly from the site there is no way for us to rate him in any way.

    In short : It is totally unfair for this to be happening to good, honest hard working folks like myself, Ian and others. For christs sake Ian is out thousands of dollars with no reply from Loren for several months maybe even a year I think.

    Loren has till the close of business today to make a miracle happen, or pull a tracking number out of his arse.

    On thursday afternoon there will be a coordinated effort to inform authorities and the Better Business Bureau.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Blackwell View Post
    J,

    The e-bay sales are getting their stuff because otherwise he would get negative feedback if he ****ed it up on that end. Buying directly from the site there is no way for us to rate him in any way.

    In short : It is totally unfair for this to be happening to good, honest hard working folks like myself, Ian and others. For christs sake Ian is out thousands of dollars with no reply from Loren for several months maybe even a year I think.

    Loren has till the close of business today to make a miracle happen, or pull a tracking number out of his arse.

    On thursday afternoon there will be a coordinated effort to inform authorities and the Better Business Bureau.

    Blackwell
    PM being sent.....
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Blackwell View Post
    Shany,

    Not sure what you are talking about here. I'm not getting another tsuka re-sent to me. He's supposed to give me an entirely new sword, which is what I requested. I have also marked the old one in case he tries to return it with a new tsuka I will know.

    Mick,

    No problem man I totally understand why you brought that point up and I appreciate it because it made me take a step back and make sure I didn't say something that would later get me in trouble. I too want to keep this thread open as long as possible, people need to know what's going on.

    J,

    The e-bay sales are getting their stuff because otherwise he would get negative feedback if he ****ed it up on that end. Buying directly from the site there is no way for us to rate him in any way.

    In short : It is totally unfair for this to be happening to good, honest hard working folks like myself, Ian and others. For christs sake Ian is out thousands of dollars with no reply from Loren for several months maybe even a year I think.

    Loren has till the close of business today to make a miracle happen, or pull a tracking number out of his arse.

    On thursday afternoon there will be a coordinated effort to inform authorities and the Better Business Bureau.

    Blackwell
    I hate seeing when things like this getting out of hand. I think there was another incident that was similar to this but with a different vendor. This is what happens when communication fails. Blackwell, I hope everything comes thru for you in the end buddy. I am truly sorry that you are going thru this.

  17. #67
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    So it seems that oni forge makes some great blades....but the customer service is in need of a little maintenance, is that right?

    i would like to order a tonbo from them....

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal v. View Post
    So it seems that oni forge makes some great blades....but the customer service is in need of a little maintenance, is that right?

    i would like to order a tonbo from them....
    FWIW, Tonbo is discontinued and sold out..

    Regarding what an Oni Performance-series kat can take, this is what Loren told me last year when I asked what can a Tonbo be used to cut with:

    ... bamboo, tatami, wood, meat, whatever.
    We had one test that caused some edge damage from a cow femur so thats probably the limit.

    Loren
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  19. #69
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    more problems.....the saga continues...

    Got the sword in today finally. I opened the box just to find the same damage to the tsuba and seppa like the first shobu I got. I mean it is right there if you just look at it, it's not that hard.

    You see, when I got my first shobu it had damage to the tsuba and seppa area. I contacted Loren and after months of waiting he sent me the replacement parts. That is when I dissasembled it and found the cracked tsuka. So now, here we are starting all over again............

    He also said he would send me something nicer for all the trouble, yet I get the same piece of sh*t.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  20. #70
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    B. Blackwell, maybe you should just return the sword and get your money back rather than keep it. What ever you decide to do next is at your discretion. The old adage of you get what you pay for just sucks at this point but it rings true. It is not uncommon for people to run into problems such as cracked tsuka due to poor assemby and changes in humidity once the peice travels over seas. Forgive me for this suggestion B., but maybe it would be better for you to get in touch with custom smiths like Rick and ADC and start saving for a peice from them. I have several from them both and I can attest to their soundness. The unfortunate thing is that you would think that after all the waiting that you have done, you would have resolved things with Loren. My question is that whether or not he checks the swords before shipping them out. What do you think B.?

  21. #71
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    That's a shame B. Does it seem like the damage occurred during production? Is it possible that it is the same sword and fittings but with a different tsuka?
    Of course it's hot! It just came out of a 350 degree oven!

  22. #72
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    customer good will

    I seriously doubt he values the good will of his customers - he cant what with the number of mid range sword customers waiting
    for even just a reply from him let alone a sword they paid cash for

    Whats happening to B here with his shobu is bad business practice
    - at least he could have QC checked this one to make sure it had none of the original defects that started this off - but it looks like he hasnt did that even.

    I believe his high end L6 customers get the run around as well so
    at least your not alone B .


    I apologise for taking part in the jacking this thread recieved B -
    not something I usually do - it went on so long I thought it was
    a seperate Oni thread at times - sorry man.

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  23. #73
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    Thanks Everyone...

    To everyone,

    I appreciate all of your replys, thoughts, and Ideas. Having shoulders to lean on in troubled times is comforting, and I thank you all for that.

    Tim,

    The damage was definetly done during assembly. I can tell it is not the same sword because the blades profile is drastically different.

    Tom,

    I think I may have to go that option. The reason I tried to get this resolved from the get go instead of just say F*ck it, is because I want to sell of my production stuff. I'm sick of it! I am looking into the future at Nihon-to and maybe some custom stuff, that's it. No more chinese crap I'm fed up with it....

    Well, one exception, I am going to keep my Ronin that I got from Brian, that blade is absolutely beautiful and I will never part with it

    Mick,

    No worries mate!

    Loren wants to send me another. I don't know I might just ask for my money back, but then I will be out a total of $20+ in return shipping expenses.
    Would be nice if he would send me a tengu line blade, that would even things up a bit.

    Blackwell
    "You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son. "

  24. #74
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    B....It looks like the only person that is going to get off the crapper in this situation is you. Sorry to hear that. Good luck with your pursuits. I am not too far from growing out of my lower end stuff too.
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  25. #75
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    bad production situations

    Its issues llike this that make people see production swords in such a negative light - so is Loren up and running with everything back to normal now ?

    I really hope so - the customer base and good will Oni forge had
    at the begginning of the year was amazing - he had 'da buzz' - to
    steal one of tinks phrases .

    I thought what Loren did by introducing different sugata like the kyomaru and the shobu was great for the katana community as a whole - it opened up people to a lot more than the standard
    shinogi zukuri blade .

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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