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Thread: Tsuka core of Cheness

  1. #1
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    Question Tsuka core of Cheness

    I was looking through Cheness's website, when I noticed a little notice at the bottom that says "new tsuka core." How "new" is this core, and what improvements have been made, as well as what is still wrong. I don't own a cheness nor have I ever handled one, so opinions would be well appreciated since I am considering buying from them.

    Thank you!!!
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

  2. #2
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    I think by "new" they mean "not used". I'm not a big fan of one size fits all for anything (tsuka, hats, clothing, etc.), because it usually fits all, but not very well. The idea of buying a premade tsuka core for a sword, from a safety standpoint, is, well, scary. You gotta hammer the sucker on and hope it doesn't crack, or it could be too loose. Tsuka really need to be custom fitted to the exact shape of the nakago, and carefully so.

    Really, there's been a lot of talk on this subject lately and there ought to be a stickied warning about DIY remount safety. It seems there are a lot of people aren't aware of the risks of cheap sword handles (though I might buy one for my gear shift :P).

    Mr. Freeman, I'd suggest you do a little reasearch before you decide to remount whatever sword you might have, and implore you not to cut with it, or swing it if you do anyway. Doing a search for 'projectile' may prove enlightening.

    Have fun and be safe.
    Those who do nothing for fear of regret often end up regretting that they did nothing. - Me

  3. #3
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    They've finally fixed it? Or is it just the appearance? They don't say anything about friction fitting the tsuka to nakago of each blade, and if they did that I'm pretty sure they'd mention it..?

    http://www.chenessinc.com/newtsuka.htm

    JH; I think Mr.Freeman meant buying a sword from Cheness, not a "replacement" tsuka..?
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  4. #4
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    It's new like in "changed supplier". They say that this is addressing their previous tsuka problems. We'll jsut have to see how the real thing perorms..
    Against ignorance, gods themselves struggle in vain.

  5. #5
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    search function

    use the search tool here on SFI for - 'cheness cracked tsuka '

    I think its as common now with the new cores as ever it was - they are using better wood but the channel inletting for the same' is still cut way too deep causing points of stress - also these are not carved to match specific nakago
    so its still the one size fits all scenario - withthe guy from the youtube vid still hammering the cores in place with a mallet .

    it never was just about the wood used but about method and working practices


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    use the search tool here on SFI for - 'cheness cracked tsuka '

    I think its as common now with the new cores as ever it was - they are using better wood but the channel inletting for the same' is still cut way too deep causing points of stress - also these are not carved to match specific nakago
    so its still the one size fits all scenario - withthe guy from the youtube vid still hammering the cores in place with a mallet .

    it never was just about the wood used but about method and working practices


    Mick
    Mick, have you seen one of these new tsuka? Or is there a recent post about a Cheness blade with a new gen tsuka? I suspect you are correct in your assumptions but until we have something concrete they are still just guesses, which are borderline slander.. search for "lawsuit". Maybe someone should ask Paul Y Chen. *shrug*
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  7. #7
    look at the pictures

  8. #8
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    I dont slander companies - I speak as I find !

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...=cheness+tsuka


    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...=cheness+tsuka


    I own a cheness 9260 shura with a remounted new core - its my favourite sword - including my higher end pieces .

    Ive never been one to bash cheness - not at all - the fact is cores have been failing since the upgrades of new timber used and different shaping .

    Kevins correct - look at the pics on cheness's own site - those channels are carved way too deep.

    I stand by their blades though - excellent work for the money - no dips or waves - well executed kissaki for a production piece .

    come on - my eyes dont lie - we've all seen the vid withthe mallet guy and the depressed chick on ito wrap duty - no tying stand , no clamps .

    a kettle boiling on the forge and a baby crying in the background - a classic .


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  9. #9
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    The panel you are referring to is about a "new" design that has been around a while. It is not new now. The channel cut was to allow the same' to lay nearly, but not quite flush with the tsuka, so a tighter wrap with the ito could be maintained and the tsuka would have a more naturally "oval" feel when held.

    The stronger wood helped, but it was just equally offset by the channel cuts. This did nothing but create a score line for the tsuka to crack since the wood is now too thin in this area.

    As for cracking...Some do, some don't...I have 5 Cheness and one has a cracked tsuka. For me, that is not an issue. The one with the cracked tsuka is just for display and was purchased for that reason.
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
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    Oh, I was under the impression that they had changed lately..
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  11. #11
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    excellent thread on production compromise

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...=cracked+tsuka

    always good for a second or third look .

    and with that I will bow out and go and retain my legal team for the onslaught ahead


    Micky P
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  12. #12
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    If that is all they have done to fix the problems, then that makes me truly sad. I wanted to buy a sword from there, but since I lack the ability to make a new tsuka and the funds to have someone do it for me, then I will have to consider some other options or hope for the best. Or I could learn how to make one...
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

  13. #13
    FWIW, my new Shura's blade is not entirely straight (veers left). In addition, the saya was made slightly curved to fit the curved blade.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. Freeman View Post
    If that is all they have done to fix the problems, then that makes me truly sad. I wanted to buy a sword from there, but since I lack the ability to make a new tsuka and the funds to have someone do it for me, then I will have to consider some other options or hope for the best. Or I could learn how to make one...
    So contact Paul and let him know your fears. He is a good person to work with and would probably not have a problem swapping swords out if you buy one and it does have a cracked core.

    Would be careful though, some people have broken perfectly good cores by not knowing how to take one off.
    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares, usually end up plowing for those who don't" :Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    I was referring to the off set at the mune, and the (?) stepped carving visible in the third pic.

  16. #16
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    Just as Kevin said, plus the fact there's minimal chance of achieving full contact between nakago and tsuka. Both parts should mate as closely as possible for a safe fit and use. Their blades may be fine, but where's the point in fitting a high performance engine into a scrap shell.

    A sword can only be as strong and resilient as it's weakest part. They appear to be presenting pretty fine blades, but falling short on the quality of their mounts can only ever result in poor quality swords (Wallhangers).

    Budget and price does no one any good if a product fails during use and someone is stricken, damaged, or killed when parts unexpectedly seperate.
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  17. #17
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    well said Kevin & Sean

    If you can do the work yourself or know someone who can do it for you at a reasonable price I fully reconmend getting a cheness bare blade in shirasaya -

    prefferably a 9260 thru hardened tenchi/shura or diff hardened kaze , and get it mounted up yourself -

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  18. #18
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    a used core cracks - no surprise there

    heres a link to jim anestias long running cheness SGC thread - at the bottom of page 3 is a latest update from Jim - the core has cracked in two places - this sword has seen extensive cutting in its short life time -

    should it have gave out yet ?

    as the tsuka is a consumable item prone to everyday wear and tear - is it normal for a tsuka to expire after this type of use ?

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...t=78549&page=3


    read on Macduff
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    heres a link to jim anestias long running cheness SGC thread - at the bottom of page 3 is a latest update from Jim - the core has cracked in two places - this sword has seen extensive cutting in its short life time -

    should it have gave out yet ?

    as the tsuka is a consumable item prone to everyday wear and tear - is it normal for a tsuka to expire after this type of use ?

    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...t=78549&page=3


    read on Macduff

    Hi Mick,

    Two short answers to your questions mate.

    No and no.

    These failure rates are excessive. Even more so after such a short period of time. Re-wraps? Perhaps once every two to three yrs through almost daily use, but tsuka cores should be expected to last up to ten years.

    -----

    The fact a sword supplier sees fit to have quantities of replacement tsuka made seems to imply serious product issues. In all sincerity and considering the number of problems regarding fit, he and his customers would probably be better served if he supplied two piece tsuka billets, ito, same, hardware and fitting instructions.

    -----
    Careful thought, consideration & communication is well worth the effort and end result.

  20. #20
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    So I've decided a few things then...
    A. I should learn how to make a tsuka and do tsuka maki.
    B. For now I should find someone who can make one for me.
    C. If I can't find someone, I will have to wait until I am competent enough to make a strong tsuka.

    Is there anyone I can contact that can make me a tsuka if I send it to them, and possible supply koshirae? If anyone knows of a person, please PM me their name and a way to contact them, it would truly be appreciated.
    "If we do not move, then we shall be separated by darkness."

  21. #21
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    I was attempting to avoid doing this, but... notice the ha side of the tsuka?
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    Last edited by Jeff Ellis; 07-21-2007 at 02:01 AM.
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  22. #22
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    I bought a cheness tsuka for the fittings... they weren't brass... you can clearly see silver coloring where I gouged the metal out after noticing they felt light.
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    I like swords.

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    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  23. #23
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    I also unwrapped the tsuka. Note that it's not wrapped so that the strands alternte and you can easily undo it by cutting one strand, I have a feeling there's some form of machine involved in tying these?
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    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
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    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  24. #24
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    and, just for fun, I split the core... remember that little gap in the first picture?

    Keep in mind, it took me at least 5 "mighty swings" to pop the core apart, fully, and it cracked on the wood, for the most part, not the joint.

    Good glue, bad construction...
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    Last edited by Jeff Ellis; 07-21-2007 at 02:02 AM.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  25. #25
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    Here's one side, with the same showing it was matched together and hidden under the ito.
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    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

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