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Thread: Persian Inscription

  1. #1

    Persian Inscription

    More to pics to follow.....

    rand
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  2. #2

    2nd Pic of Inscription

    Central part of Inscription
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  3. #3

    Pics Posted on blog

    Pics posted on this blog:

    http://persiangoldinlayinscription.blogspot.com/

    rand

  4. #4
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    Sorry I have been extremely tied up and busy:

    In Persian
    āhan tan va ātash dēl va hastī kāh ast sūzandē-yē jān-ē khasm shāhanshāh ast
    The iron is like the body, the heart is like the fire, and life is like the straw
    The burner [destroyer] of the enemy’s life is the king of kings

    There is still one line in Persian, I will read that later for you.

    In Arabic
    Ma sha' allah, la hawl walla qowat ella billah
    God does as he will, there is no strength or power except of God

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  5. #5

    translations

    Manouchehr,

    Thanks for the translations so far, patiently awaiting the next section.

    rand

  6. #6

    Translations to Inscriptions

    hey Manouchehr,

    When you post the last section of translation could you also let me know what section of inscription go's with which translation?

    Thanks again,

    rand

  7. #7

    Punched Signature among others posted

    This makers signature stamped into metal....

    rand
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  8. #8
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    Hi Rand,

    THis one was tough. I checked Dehkhoda and a number of leading lexicons. I also confered with two Iranian scholars:


    Isā-yē Arab kē zobdeyē ashbāh ast
    Anis mūnes begāh-ē afrāh ast

    The Arab Jesus who is the best [most benevolent] among the best [referring to the prophets]
    Is the helper and the relief of pain through the time of suffering and pain
    Please note that Isā refers to the prophet Jesus. As you know in Islam both Prophet Moses and Prophet Jesus are holy as well. This is a line to respect Prophet Jesus
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  9. #9
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    Ok Rand

    As promised each inscription with its related inscription.

    In Persian
    āhan tan va ātash dēl va hastī kāh ast sūzandē-yē jān-ē khasm shāhanshāh ast
    The iron is like the body, the heart is like the fire, and life is like the straw
    The burner [destroyer] of the enemy’s life is the king of kings
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  10. #10
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    Ma sha' allah, la hawl walla qowat ella billah Saneye 1235
    God does as he will, there is no strength or power except of God, the year 1235
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    This makers signature stamped into metal....

    rand
    Rand

    Could you please post a better picture of this inscription?

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  12. #12

    Inscription

    hello Manouchehr,

    Thank you for the translation. Will try to get a better photo of the armorer punch mark.

    Can you tell me what the below inscription/translation means as a metaphor in Farsi?

    "āhan tan va ātash dēl va hastī kāh ast sūzandē-yē jān-ē khasm shāhanshāh ast

    The iron is like the body, the heart is like the fire, and life is like the straw
    The burner [destroyer] of the enemy’s life is the king of kings "

    Thanks again,

    rand

  13. #13

    "burner"

    Hey Manouchehr,


    Does the word burner {destroyer} also mean kills with lightning?

    rand

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    hello Manouchehr,

    Thank you for the translation. Will try to get a better photo of the armorer punch mark.

    Can you tell me what the below inscription/translation means as a metaphor in Farsi?

    "āhan tan va ātash dēl va hastī kāh ast sūzandē-yē jān-ē khasm shāhanshāh ast

    The iron is like the body, the heart is like the fire, and life is like the straw
    The burner [destroyer] of the enemy’s life is the king of kings "

    Thanks again,

    rand
    Hi Rand,

    Sorry for the late reply I am very busy at the moment. This refers to a sentence that praises the warrior qualities of a king. These verses are common on Persian arms and armor in Persian poems. It means that the body of the king (and his followers) are as hard as iron, his heart is like fire (meaning fearless) and life is ephemeral (meaning one should not be afraid of death). The king destroys the life of enemies.

    Regards
    Manouchehr

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    Hey Manouchehr,


    Does the word burner {destroyer} also mean kills with lightning?

    rand
    Hi Rand,

    Yes in figurative sense it would. You can use this with any type of weapon also with a sword strike etc.

    Regards
    Manouchehr

  16. #16

    New pic of armorers mark

    New photo of punch mark in metal... Let me know if this is readable,

    Thanks,

    rand
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  17. #17
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    I can't make out the bottom line, but the top line says "Kuchak Ali" which means Little Ali, or Ali Junior.

  18. #18
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    Excellent Shayan:

    Amal-e Kuchak Ali bar Tofangiran

    The work of Kuchak Ali for the musketeers/rifleholders

    This is an inscription on a gun, am I correct?

    KInd regards
    Manouchehr

  19. #19
    Thank you Shayan and Manouchehr,

    This armorers mark is indeed on a Northwest Persian firearm. Is the makers stamp wriiten in Farsi? Does the phrase "for the musketeers/rifleholders" bear any signifigance?

    Looked through LA Mayers books on Islamic armorers and found no information on this maker, most of the armorers in that book are either canon or sword makers.

    rand

    rand

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    Thank you Shayan and Manouchehr,

    This armorers mark is indeed on a Northwest Persian firearm. Is the makers stamp wriiten in Farsi? Does the phrase "for the musketeers/rifleholders" bear any signifigance?

    Looked through LA Mayers books on Islamic armorers and found no information on this maker, most of the armorers in that book are either canon or sword makers.

    rand

    rand
    Rand,

    You are very welcome. At the moment I cannot tell you much. In my first book I provide a list of swordmakers I mean I added to the list. However, Iranian military museums have the best collection of Persian guns starting from the Safavid period up to the end of the Qajar. This is one of my future projects so that researchers can make comparisons to that list as well. Till that point I cannot add much. The inscroption is in Persian.

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  21. #21

    Armours Marks Reference

    There is very little published in English regarding Islamic armours marks. There have been French articles (Gladius) and Russian books covering mostly Turkish arms but no English translatins available yet.

    Have not seen any thorough study of Islamic Firearms, we have mostly the general history studies, probably because access to a complete collection has been unavailable.

    Have ther book of " Arms and Armor from Iran " on order and am anxious to see it. There cetainly are voids to fill in on what is known about the evolution, developement and dating of Islamic arms.

    rand

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    There is very little published in English regarding Islamic armours marks. There have been French articles (Gladius) and Russian books covering mostly Turkish arms but no English translatins available yet.

    Have not seen any thorough study of Islamic Firearms, we have mostly the general history studies, probably because access to a complete collection has been unavailable.

    Have ther book of " Arms and Armor from Iran " on order and am anxious to see it. There cetainly are voids to fill in on what is known about the evolution, developement and dating of Islamic arms.

    rand
    Hi Rand,

    You can find many Persian makers' mark in the museums of Iran. THey are 95 percent Persian as they are in their native country. I am sure that in other Middle Eastern countries they should be other excellent museums as well, where one can fill the void on Middle Eastern arms and armor, I mean also Turkish and Arab weapons.

    The Iranian museums have magnificent guns and rifles, many from the Safavid period. They are really nice.

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  23. #23

    Year? Persian calendar or Hijera?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manouchehr M. View Post
    Ma sha' allah, la hawl walla qowat ella billah Saneye 1235
    God does as he will, there is no strength or power except of God, the year 1235
    Hello Manouchehr,

    Is the year 1235 according to the Persian Calendar which would be 1856-57 or is according hijera calendar which would be 1821? How do we know to tell the two apart?

    rand

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rand milam View Post
    Hello Manouchehr,

    Is the year 1235 according to the Persian Calendar which would be 1856-57 or is according hijera calendar which would be 1821? How do we know to tell the two apart?

    rand
    Hi Rand,

    Excellent questions. The pieces of arms and armor from the Timurid, Safavid, Afshar, Zand, and Qajar periods I have seen are all dated with hegira calendar.

    Selected items are dated with Persian calendar but not arms and armor. Nevertheless, I will bring up this point with other scholars in Iran and will let you know. I would say it is hegira.

    Kind regards
    Manouchehr

  25. #25

    Reguarding Musketeers/Rifleholders

    Hey Manouchehr,

    Reguarding the term musketeers/rifleholders on the below translation....

    "Amal-e Kuchak Ali bar Tofangiran

    The work of Kuchak Ali for the musketeers/rifleholders"

    Was the Tofangiran used for both an individual or a group?

    In Farsi is there a seperate term for a rifled barrel long firearm (rifle) compared to the smooth bored long firearm (musket)?


    Or did they use the same word for both firearms? In Dr Khalil's collection he also has the rifle barreled long firearms labeled as muskets.

    In European armies the rifle had a special status.
    The King's Royal Rifle Corps was founded in 1755 is one example of the European rifle regiment.

    rand

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