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Thread: British Slot Hilt Photos and Discussion

  1. #76
    Here is a slotted hilt with a couple of side bars and a slightly curved blade.



    I currently own one almost exactly the same.
    Last edited by Mark McMorrow; 09-05-2007 at 07:49 PM.

  2. #77
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    Another slotted S-bar. I believe somebody on the forum said they knew of examples of this type in the Scottish United Services Museum, attributed to Scottish militia. Stylized thistle pommel, reeded ebony grip. Pic is a little fuzzy (sorry), but you get the idea...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

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    Benjamin Franklin

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Cloke View Post
    Here is a slotted hilt with a couple of side bars and a slightly curved blade.



    I currently own one almost exactly the same.
    I have admired that one for quite some time. Do you have a photo of yours?

    Jonathan

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark McMorrow View Post
    Another slotted S-bar. I believe somebody on the forum said they knew of examples of this type in the Scottish United Services Museum, attributed to Scottish militia. Stylized thistle pommel, reeded ebony grip. Pic is a little fuzzy (sorry), but you get the idea...
    And the gilding is still quite prominent. The hilt looks like a hybrid of the slot hilt and five-ball-style hilt. It seems like many swords of the 1790s-1815-ish attributed to Scottish origin have the s-bar branches. It is a very distinct style. I wonder if the decision was purely practical or if it was intended to hearken back to the Scottish association with the basket hilt?

    Jonathan

  5. #80
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    here is another

    French Pre revolution

    SABRE type MONTMORENCY



    “Do you know what astonished me most in the world? The inability of force to create anything. In the long run, the sword is always beaten by the spirit.” Napoleon Bonaparte

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    And the gilding is still quite prominent. The hilt looks like a hybrid of the slot hilt and five-ball-style hilt. It seems like many swords of the 1790s-1815-ish attributed to Scottish origin have the s-bar branches. It is a very distinct style. I wonder if the decision was purely practical or if it was intended to hearken back to the Scottish association with the basket hilt?

    Jonathan
    I don't think there is a basket hilt connecton really. Most of the slot hilts and side bar hilts, with or without branches are used in English regiments too and the Lowland Scottish regiments have traditionally followed English patterns, except for a spell in the Victorian period.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by David Critchley View Post
    I don't think there is a basket hilt connecton really. Most of the slot hilts and side bar hilts, with or without branches are used in English regiments too and the Lowland Scottish regiments have traditionally followed English patterns, except for a spell in the Victorian period.
    David,
    Thanks for setting me right. I was thinking more of the branching side bar feature. I am sure it only stood out to me because often times Scottish swords are given separate billing in books on British swords. Looking at them in isolation from English swords probably led to an inaccurate generalization.

    Jonathan

  8. #83
    As mentioned in a previous post I own a slotted hilt with two side branches. Probably circa 1780.





  9. #84
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    here's a c/u of the thistle-esque pommel found on the Scottish slotted S-bar shown above.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Mark McMorrow; 09-08-2007 at 07:54 PM.
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."
    Benjamin Franklin

  10. #85
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    A bird's eye view on a slot hilt. An interesting evolution. My hunch is that this is pretty late for the form.

    some detail makes me want to say naval but I can't be sure.

    These have been borrowed and rehosted. The blade is a wide body sabre of foot or naval length. I don't know if it would be a one-off but the gaurd detail almost seems quite crude/hand worked and not something that was cast in plentiful amount.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; when is a slot, not?

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark McMorrow View Post
    here's a c/u of the thistle-esque pommel found on the Scottish slotted S-bar shown above.
    I think the SUSM thistle pommel is this one Mark



    Glen, the eagle pommel slot is a straight copy of the 1803 sabre, could be as early as about 1790

  12. #87
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    Hi David,
    Glen, the eagle pommel slot is a straight copy of the 1803 sabre, could be as early as about 1790
    Certainly the overall style of the sword could date that far back but the form of the bird and backstrap would seem to fall about as late as the dealer listing of the War of 1812, although I have seen some dated a couple of years earlier. The best match I see in Mowbray is a Philadelphia copy of a British pattern dated 1810 (plain stirrup). Maybe not as late as my first thoughts.

    All the Ketland style, with slots, that I see are scarcely dated after about 1805. This is a different pattern. the backstrap forms of eagles seem to really pick up after that conflict and most are not the flat-top hairdo.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; it is over at Lanes

  13. #88

    New one today






    Marked "Gill"

  14. #89
    David,
    An excellent addition to your outstanding Georgian infantry sword collection. How long in the blade on that one?

    Jonathan

  15. #90
    Thanks Jonathan, The blade is 27" Nice feel to the sword overall, shame about the small chip to the blade, but it is a chip not rust so I'm happy to accept it as honest wear.
    It will look better after some gentle cleaning

  16. #91
    Is the knuckle guard reeded, plain, or otherwise decorated (Maybe to complement the gadrooning on the pommel)?

    Jonathan

  17. #92
    Just the normal vertical lines and double line at right angles to it near the pommel. This seems a standard decoration on these swords. All my slot hilts have had this patterning.

  18. #93
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    Similar to one from a past auction


    AN OFFICERS SWORD. C1760 with narrow slotted hilt, brass and wire bound, some traces of decoration. Partial double fuller, large and small versions. 67.5cm single-edged blade.
    I was just looking for that cavalry page again and stumbled upon that.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; pretty stuff

  19. #94
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    British Slot Guards

    I'm new at this - just joined - looks like fun... I have three British four-slot-guards in my collection. AND one 1803 pattern officer's saber - Most of which are slot-guards too - with six-slots... As far as the earliest - I have a silver-hilt early spadroon by Fayle family of London worked 1743-82 - with lion head pommel. The second is a British Light Dragoon saber with a Jeffrey's blade - Neumann 131.SS. The third is a silver-hilt spadroon dated 1799 by Read of Portsmouth. I believe the 4-slot pattern was popular from 1765 thru 1790 and that my dated Read piece is "late"... Oddly, the photo of your sword with the contour to the quillon is very like my Fayle piece. I would guess that your sword was a military officer's sword circa 1790s - maybe a flank officer...it appears to be a precusor of the 1803. Hope this all makes sense.... Grif

  20. #95
    Hi, Grif, and welcome to Sword Forum International!

    If you are able to share any photos, we are always hungry to see beautiful swords! If you need help doing so, we're happy to help.

    I appreciate your input on my slot hilt with lionshead pommel. I have heard several opinions on it over the years, from cavalry officer's sword (too short) to an NCO variant of the 1803. After hearing your thoughts and those of other forumites, I agree that this one is most likely a 1790s piece that has some older features (scalloped slot guard) and newer features (lionshead pommel, backstrap, single wide fullered blade).

    There were quite a few slot hilts at the Hartford Antique Arms Show this past weekend, and marked my first-hand exposure to 18th century American swords. The quality of the American slot hilts was on par with most of the British slot hilts I have encountered. I could have easily been seduced by a British or American slot hilt!

    Again, thank you for your input!

    Jonathan

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Grafton H. Cook View Post
    I'm new at this - just joined - looks like fun
    Hi Grif,

    Really glad you joined us!

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grafton H. Cook View Post
    I'm new at this - just joined - looks like fun...
    Hello Griff, and welcome. Yes, its is quite fun . . . it can also make you quite envious at times. I'll sure that there are a few on this board who are already coveting your collection!

    Andre
    Andre F. Ducote
    Mississippi

  23. #98
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    I've hesitated to post mine here because it is shown elsewhere but with new eyes in the house, I'd always be intrested in more thought. Jonathan was looking at it rather quizically last month in person and thought it might be an American made hilt. it does have GR engravings but as Jonathan pointed out, we were a colony before becoming a nation.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; there were some beautiful and fragile looking hilts at the Hartford show
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  24. #99
    It could very well be just a beefy British hilt, but its robust nature and design reminds me of the few American examples I have seen. A sword in Neumann that is attributed to Ethan Allen has a GR cypher on its blade. As far as dating goes, I would say 1780-1790--does that sound about right?

    Jonathan
    Last edited by J.G. Hopkins; 10-17-2007 at 07:01 PM.

  25. #100
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    All: Many thanks for your warm welcome. I hope I can add something to these discussions.
    Jonathan: We'll have to get together when I go to Ft.Ti again...My Cook family settled in Orwell following the Rev. War... Glen C. That slot-guard with the brass pommel is interesting...My GUESS - it's American and would expect an officer's piece that might have been with Harmer, St Claire or Wayne. Hardly appears to have been an import... Could be as late as War of 1812... I doubt it's Rev War. Also, because of the iron guard it could be cavalry although sabers were the thing by that time... .. I hope to get set up with pictures to send but must get my computer guru to show me how and set everything up... I'll start with a French saber (I don't really collect French-never did - but this sword is fascinating and nobody during the 40 years I've owned it could tell me what it is!) The hilt is solid ormulo with a satyr-head pommel and probably First Empire..... I'm going to post a seperate message about Scottish swords now and I'm anxious for any imput... Thanks again Grif

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