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Thread: Tips For The Sword Collector

  1. #126
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    Papers of the War Department (US)

    http://wardepartmentpapers.org/index.php

    Quite search-able. Interesting finds. Many letters regarding swords. More regarding specific individuals.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; plug in say, swords

    1784-1800
    Last edited by Glen C.; 11-17-2012 at 06:43 AM.

  2. #127
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    A reminder of articles available online from the American Society of Arms Collectors Bulletins
    http://americansocietyofarmscollecto...letinindex.htm

    There are some great reads concerning swords and other arms. The "recent"
    Rethinking the Potter: The Truth behind the Revolutionary War’s Ultimate Sword
    article a real eye opener for me.
    http://asoac.org/bulletins/98_goldstein_potter.pdf

    Cheers

    Hotspur; another fom Bazelon on The Trade in Sword Blades also interesting, for sure

  3. #128
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    Not to forget what can be found on Archive.org

    Browsing Ebay this evening and I saw an interesting pamphlet at an absurd price.

    Addresses on the presentation of the sword of Gen. Andrew Jackson to the Congress of the United States (1855)

    A scan offered in book form
    http://archive.org/details/addressesonprese00unit

    A nice read of patriotic fervor.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; I seem to recall an article about the sword itself as well but just a jog here to remind all of Archive.org

  4. #129
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    Available as a real time book or on the the internet.

    National Militia Standard: Embracing Scott's Militia Tactics, Or the Duty of Infantry, Light Infantry, and Riflemen. Also the Drill Exercise and Manoeuvres of the Light and Horse Artillery; Together with the Modern Mode of Discipline and Sword Exercise for the Cavalry. The Work is Illustrated by 40 Copper-plate Engravings ... Prepared in Conformity to Gen. Scott's System, Volume 2 (Google eBook) (gotta love e text transcriptions from books)

    O. D. Cooke, 1822



    http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=1bQpAAAAYAAJ

    Cheers

    Hotspur; I don't know that I'll ever catch up with reading but will run through this one for sure

  5. #130
    It is never a bad idea to educate oneself on the various replicas for sale for reenactors, swordsmanship, and other hobbyists. Mass produced replicas are easy to artificially age and sell as originals, and I see even experienced dealers sell modern Indian-made replicas as originals--likely out of ignorance rather than malice. Ebay is rife with Chinese fakes, and Indian manufacturers like Weapon Edge and Universal Swords produce a huge number of replica military swords. Cold Steel also offers a number of replica military swords. Staying current on the replica market will pay off!

  6. #131
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cumbria
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    Always always research a sword before selling it if you can.

    A while ago I started selling off the least tidy elements from my collection on the antiques classified section of this forum. One was a very worn Wilkinson 1895 pattern Infantry Officers sword. It was so tatty that I did not even bother to find the original owners name. It was sold for not very much, as tatty 1895/97s do not command a high price. The person to whom I sold it, is more interested in the history of the owners than I was. He was fortunate and sold it on to further his collection.

    http://www.antiquearmsandarmour.com/...ry-pennell-vc/

    Moral of the story is DO THE RESEARCH

    So I did on a very tatty RA Officers sword with the name W Perkin etched at the fort. I purchased a CD of all the available Hart's Lists and fortunately there was only one W Perkin in the RA during Victoria's reign. He ended up as a QM in 1841 but before that he had a very interesting service life

    121 Quarter-Master Perkin's services: — Campaign in Italy in 1805; occupation of
    Sicily in 1806 and 1807 ; battle of Maida; campaigns of 1813 and 1814 in the Peninsula,
    including the battle of Vittoria, siege of San Sebastian, passage of the Bidassoa, battles of
    the Nivelle and the Nive, passage of the Adour, operations against Bayonne, and repulse
    of the sortie. Expedition to America in 1814, including the attack on New Orleans in
    Dec. 1814, and the siege and capture of Fort Bowyer. Capture of Paris in 1815.

    Needless to say I will no longer be selling this sword on the classifieds for £200.

    Another sword I had was a tatty numbered Pillin 1821 Heavy Cav Officers sword. But it was not, it turned out to be the field officer's sword of an Argyll and Sutherland Brevet Major that was made in 1858/59 when he was promoted to Major. He went on to great things.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Traill-Burroughs

    So three tatty swords that I planned to sell in the £200 to £300 range. Two are still in my possession and one was a lost opportunity.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Martin R John; 03-30-2014 at 01:04 PM.

  7. #132
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    Martin,
    Fascinating, thanks for sharing. Bad luck on the first. I have to say, you know the last sword I bought from you turned out to be someone quite significant as well? The Wilkinson record was wrong by one digit, but we found it there on the next number. I'm not going to sell it though and it will feature in a book (possible two), so not a total loss
    As a matter of interest, do you know when the artillery sword dates to? And who is the maker?
    Regards,
    Matt

  8. #133
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    Hi Matt
    I suspect the sword to be 1840's, William Perkin became QM in 1841 and is lost from the Army List in 1849.
    The sword itself is as large as an 1821 LC Trpr sword. There is no maker mark but the proof stud is possibly suggestive of an early Mole stud.
    I cannot see how the sword can be later than 1850 even if it was a retirement present.
    Martin
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  9. #134
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    Guildford, Surrey, England.
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    Thanks Martin, it looks like a nice early one. I think there is definitely work to be done by someone on pinning down the story and timing behind the adoption of the 1821 by the artillery.

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    UK
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    Martin,

    I feel for you!!
    As a matter of routine I always research my swords as and when able, mostly because I prefer to have a tatty but well used sword rather than a pristine dress sword, but hey, that is my preference.

    Yet not all dealers fully research the swords they sell either:

    a) I purchased (from a dealer) a Wilkinson patent hilted HC blade made in 1904 to an individual who was advertised as a well know county cricket captain. During WW1 he re-joined the Army under the re-mount scheme and went on the win an MC, be awarded a DSO and be the last OIC of the Irish Guards till they returned home in 1919, he fought in all the battles with them after early 1916 (inc the famous ones) and is mentioned numerous times in Kipling's official account of the Irish Guards in WW1. Yet his career became really interesting after WW1; when he led the Irish Guards into Eastern Europe and on leaving them he was seconded to the Egyptian King but unattached to any specific regiment like the majority of other British officers seconded at that time. From this point onwards his work in the desert in the 1920s is still classified, but he is rumoured to have been involved in some of the bogus archaeological surveys the British government was conducting whilst fully mapping the desert, setting up storage depots and developing the very early prototypes of vehicles later used by the LRDG units in WW2. As these vehicles, methods of operation, navigational techniques and equipment modifications did not just occur overnight as some historians who have never worn a uniform believe.

    b) In addition I also purchased a Wilkinson Scots cross-hilt made in 1871 complete with personal crest, motto and regimental markings to the 78th Ross-shire ‘Buffs’ Highlanders. The original owner bought it as a basket hilt, served in the 2nd Afghan campaign then after losing a daughter (and nearly his wife) whilst there resigned his commission and later became a co-founder of the Scottish Veterans Residences association still in existence today. His eldest son used the blade, fitted the cross-hilt and an 1899 pattern scabbard and served in the 2nd Boer War (5 clasps) followed by WW1; but in a classified and strange research role establishing Nain House and such practices. His grandson also joined the Buffs and had a very interesting career in following his father’s footsteps in setting up and being a founding instructor/trainer of the early SOE for WW2, later conducting a number of operational missions himself. Whilst it is very doubtful that the grandson carried/used the blade, it was sold on as part of his estate, on demise, to an antique dealer (as part of a house clearance) who had no eye for swords but was happy selling the individual medal collections for five figure sums...

    Regards

    Bryan

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