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Thread: Canadian 1855 D-hilt artillery sword?

  1. #1

    Canadian 1855 D-hilt artillery sword?

    I have recently been emailed by someone who sent me images and details of this sword.

    I haven't heard of this sword before and was wondering if anyone else had either heard of them or seen one. There was apparently an article written in the "Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting" on these.

    The information I have been given is....

    250 of these were shipped to Canada in 1856, part of a shipment of various weapons to arm the militia. There were only 250 of these, and subsequent artillery issues were P1853 Cav. sabres.
    The proofs on the blade are different, with a "C" beneath the inspector station mark. It has been postulated this is for Canada.
    The unit marking on the knuckle bow is "C" over "27". This is the 27th man in the Toronto Field Battery.
    The proofs (minus the C) are repeated on the unsharpened edge ahead of the guard.
    It has the marking "Mole" on the top flat in the customary spot.
    No other markings.
    Blade is 33.5 in. and is of the same form as the P1853. A couple are known with 35.5 in. blades like a P1853. The scabbard is a standard iron field identical to the P1853.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Hi Mark,

    Interesting sword. Are you sure the inspector's mark is a 'D'? Looks like an 'S' on my screen. I can't trace a 'D' except for the Daimler works which was part of the BSA group but much later than this sword. If it is 'S' then of course it will be Solingen.

    It looks like the 'C' stands for Canada as you say.
    (Skennerton 'The Broad Arrow')

    Alan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    I don't know if this wil attach, or be any better to see a D
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  4. #4
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    Still looks like an 'S' to me.

    Alan
    Last edited by Alan Quinn; 10-13-2007 at 07:25 AM.

  5. #5
    Hi,

    The sword doesn't belong to me and I only have the images that were emailed to me. I thought it interesting as I hadn't heard of this shipment with the single guard.

    The inspection stamp is a "B" above the 13. The 'B' for Birmingham which is where Mole was based. As mentioned the "C" below the stamp is supposed to be for "Canada" but I have no idea if this is true?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    Ottawa, Canada
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    Mark,

    I've actually be working on a bit of an update article (possibly for CAM) on the D guard, which is in fact the only pattern of sword exclusively made for the Canadian militia. At first it was assumed these were cut down p53 but comparison shows the guard to be much wider than the p53. These swords were also issued for cavalry in addition to artillery regiments

    Most known are marked to Mole and has British inspection stamps. The "D" in question is I believe a "B". Most swords intended for the Canadian marker bear inspectors marks for Birmingham or "L" for Liege.

    Both Upper Canada and Lower Canada had troop letters, but only Lower Canada further marked their swords with a L.C., therefore this sword can safely be attributed to Upper Canada. The 27 is simply the sword number, while the C refers to Troop C, 1st Wentworth Troop of Cavalry with a strenght of 53 troopers. As this same sword was issued to Artillery, it could also be attributed to the Toronto Field Battery (strenght of 71) as Mark mentioned.

    Rob
    Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
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    1855 Canadian sword

    I have a D guard sword, the letter under B13 appears to be "C". The shorter blade was made that way(not shortened after) and can identified by where the fuller stops, the same distance as the p1853. The guard is thicker (heavier) most likely to locate a proper balance point. The shorter scabbard was originally 2 loose rings, but because of heavy usage, swords can be found with the longer p1853 or shortened scabbards with 2 opposing fixed rings. Hope this helps.

  8. #8
    Well this an old thread but I have found it educational.

    I also have one of these swords. From what I can tell it was also a C Troop or Battery sword.

    The scabbard is an 1853 one.

    I would appreciate any insight as to the markings on it.

    I have posted some pics here

    http://imgur.com/a/fVFrQ

    Thanks, Colin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
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    The "C" mark on the blade is also found on 1853p swords. The stamp used appears to have been chipped before use on these swords. The "C" most likely designates them as a Canadian shipment. The "C" on the guard would be a troop.
    The scabbard appears to be for a 1853p cavalry sword, is it longer than the 33 inch blade? The last modification was to have two fixed opposing rings on the scabbard, previous to that was two fixed rings on the same side.
    Last edited by Will Mathieson; 04-17-2017 at 10:19 PM.

  10. #10
    Thanks Will. The scabbard is an 1853 one. I am curious as to the BD marking on it. I can only think Brandt Dragoons but this does not seem to fit with the timeframe?

    Also, the markings on the guard side 34 and HFB. Note that they appear struck differently. The H also may be lacking the cross bar so maybe it is 11 FB?

    Thanks

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Kingston area, Ontario Canada
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    The 34 HFB is interesting and I've not seen this before. Canadian scabbards were altered to use in these and other swords such as relocation of rings and shortening of length.
    Most likely modifications were done in Canada because Britain was too far,a long a time to wait or added expense.

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