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Thread: Avoiding the military kukri fake

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    Avoiding the military kukri fake

    More and more faked kukris are hitting the market at the moment and going away for 100 Euros and more on auction
    platforms while authentique kukris sometimes don't even reach 50 Euro.
    At the moment I'm writing this, 3 of these fakes are advertised on a german arms trading platform alone (mind:
    Germany is a small market in regards to kukri collectors).

    Seeing a fellow forumite being ripped of recently by some shady arms dealer to me was a signal that it is about time
    (and in that case even too late) to have a more detailed look on the most common type of "fake kukris".

    What is a fake ?
    This has been discussed a few times - but I want to make clear how I define "fake" in this post.
    A horn handled, chromed, lion headed tourist kukri advertised as "WW2 bring back" to me is not a fake - it is
    wrongly advertised - may that be intentional or unintentional - but the kukris still stays what it is: a tourist
    piece from India.
    To me a "kukri" becomes a fake when it has been "modified" to appear (and sell) as something more valueable then
    it actually is. For example:
    - adding false militray stamps and marks to the blade
    - artificially aging a blade to make it look "antique"
    - remounting a modern blade in an old handle and selling the whole thing as "antique"
    - etc.

    So the modern replica of an MKII is not a fake, it is a replica. None of the companies producing one add any
    governmental marks to it ... but at the very moment someone does, it becomes a fake to me. Before that it is just
    a replica and replicas have any right to exist in their own segments of the market.

    The good news is that the kukri market in itself is rather small. Otherwise we would see similar masses of fakes
    than with nihon-to or sabres from the napoleonic era, etc.
    But the militaria market is huge. Most Collectors of military equipment from the World Wars want at least one
    marked kukri from that period. That is why military marked pieces with matching sheaths sometimes reach far
    higher prices than significantly older victorian kukris - and that is why we see a lot of fakes in that area of the
    market.

    In the following I'd like to focus on the four most common types of fakes - if you haven't read Jonathan's "Must
    Read Article" on British pattern kukris here:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=77657
    please do so before you proceed - I'll use terms from that article frequently without the indepth explanation
    that Jonathan is giving.

    1. The brass mounted WW1 stamped kukri in leather scabbard.


    Overall picture of the most common fake

    To my information these kukris are produced somewhere in India or even Pakistan as "replica of a historical
    kukri". They can be bought for about 20 USD from various retailers and when sold as that, then everything is fine
    (despite the fact that such a type of kukri never existed and they are mixed together from various designs).
    The problem is that with a bit of sand paper they can get this "antique finish" and that some also come with a
    brown "antique finished" scabbard - as shown in the picture above - right from the factory.
    Get some false stamps on them and you have a kukri from 1917.
    This "replica kukri" with MKII stamps from WW1 added is the most common kukri fake we see today.

    It comes with two blade types (angled spine and round spine - please remember: neither the MKI nor the MKII have
    an agled spine) and it has many details that tell that it is fake, but the easiest way to do so is á close look to the grip.
    It is brass mounted, rivetted, with brass bands arround it and - in most cases - with a brass pommel cap.

    Actually this design is based on two types of handles:

    1. The "genuine" grip upon which researchers still argue if it occured during, shortly after or even slightly
    before WW2. It is the grip of all "Genuine" stamped kukris I've seen so far and get's used since then on some
    other models as well since into our days.

    2. The MKIII grip design with its wide middle ring, thinner waist and the large rivets


    top: Grip from a genuine stamped kukri (most likely post WW2), bottom: grip of a MKIII from WW2


    So you can see that the actual design of the grip for this replica can't be related to WW1 at all. The grip of
    a WW1 MKII looks entirely different. The grip has a curve in itself, not that much waist and two thin
    middle rings - there also are no "metal rings" in the MKII design.


    grip of a 1918 stamped MKII from Cossipore arsenal

    And then there is brass. I still need to see a brass mounted authentique MKI or MKII. From all informations I have
    now there was no exception to the use of steel mounts.
    I don't say that brass does not appear on military kukris - it does for example with some private purchase pieces.
    But I'm quite confident to state: "Brass was not used to build bolsters of british pattern military kukris until the MKV".
    If you find a brass mounted MKII blade it is either a fake or an old blade has been rehandled. In both cases:
    Run don't walk away from that blade!

    The stamp on these fakes is the next important feature to look at. Below a correct WW1 MKII stamp:



    So to explain what that stamp actually means:
    CO - the maker, Cossipore Arsenal in India
    I arrow G - the indian governmental mark with the british broad arrow
    II - MK II (the model number)
    1918 - the year
    5 inspection number

    Now looking at the fake MKII stamp one can see that it is far smaller than the original stamp. but all the elements are there.


    stamp on the most common type of MKII WW1 fake

    According to this stamp we are looking at a MKII, made by Cossipore in 1917, with the inspection number 37.
    But keeping the size aside, I still need to see an MKII WW1 stamp that is 90 degrees to the blade.
    Attention: Some WW2 MKII stamps are at 90 degrees, as well as the M43 stamp! - but the vast majority of fakes
    I've seen so far are WW1.

    Luckily the fraudsters at the moment only seem to have a limited set of numbers. which leads that only a limited
    variety of combinations.
    Suspicious are MKIIs from 1916 or 1917 with inspection numbers: 37, 35, 43

    What makes picking a fake stamp from a real one so complicated are two factors:
    - the fraudsters are getting better; I recently saw one of these brass pieces with a CO stamp that was extremely
    close to the size and form of the original letters and numbers - stamped 1916, inspection Number 35.
    - original stamping wasn't that well "organized". So the 1918 stamped piece above is an ideal example. For
    another authentique stamps please see here:


    odd but correct stamp from 1916

    This one is far spread accross the blade (not everything in front of the kauri as it should be), the arrow is
    unusally small and the II for MKII is either missing or has worn off.
    Nevertheless The "Co" is the correct one, the arrow (even though small) in "one piece" - to me a correct stamp;
    odd but authentique.

    So my advice in regards to stamping is: Ask! Use this forum or pm the regulars here!
    This forum does allow the dicussion of online auctions (if certain criteria are met) - make use of this.


    2. The MKIII handled MKII

    The second most common MKII fake is this "bolster less" piece, that is why I call it the MKIII handled MKII -
    as the MKIII was the first design without a bolster.


    picture of bolster-less MKII fake with closeup of grip

    Actually I'm the proud owner of this fake. I fell into the trap in my earlier collecting days, wondering why the
    grip was so clumsy.
    The ugly grip is the main characteristic of this piece. The double middle ring of the MKII is just hinted (actually
    just a line scratched into a massive middle ring) and again: if you have an MKII stamped kukri and no bolster,
    it either was rehandled or it isn't an MKII.
    The majority of these examples come with a "sort of shoulder" in the spine. It isn't completely round like an MKII
    should be but neither does not show a real angle as an MKIII would (did I use the word "ugly" already ?)

    My piece also comes with a british broad arrow on the grip - as if to emphasis the small stamp. I've seen the
    broad arrow on scabbards if military inspected and of course on blades. I've never seen it on the handle
    of an authentique kukri.


    faked Co Stamp on my MKII with MKIII grip

    The fake stamps used are actually identical to the brass mounted fakes - so I suppose that the same "fraud workshop"
    is behind these.

    This kukri also comes in a version that is harder to spot. The spine is round and the grip is a bit more slender
    with an actually nice looking waist.


    Picture of the overall shape of the 2nd version on top, detail of the spine below - please compare with my piece,
    with courtesy of araldis

    This is the deluxe edition of this fake and I owe a german collector I only know as "araldis" my thanks for getting
    me the pictures of his fake. Yet the main criteria "no bolster" is as well obvious.
    Please also note the extremely small and very sloppy done kauri on both examples.

    This is as well was stamped 1916, 43 - actually it looks as if the same thamps that faked my example were used.

    Those fakes come in different scabbards, some of them tourist grade scabbards covered with clothing (preferably
    washed green or brown) but I also saw camouflage and a not to bad repro of an MKII scabbard.


    3. The stamped tourist / MKV

    While 1. and 2. are MKII fakes, the 3rd most common fraud is to take one of the many tourist models that is either
    identical with the MKV or shows some resemblance, get it some age and maybe a few faked stamps and then sell it as
    authentique WW2 military bring back.
    The piece below was sold to its owner as "service No1 from WW2".


    modern kukri, altered to resemble a WW2 piece, overall picture and detail of stamps, with the courtesy of Kristof Verjans

    To my understanding "service No1" is synonymous to the MKV - but as it can be seen this is an MKIII repro. What
    it has in common with the MKV are the brass mounts and the full grip (here made of wood instead of horn).
    One can see actually multiple attempts to make this look more "WW2 military".

    The four digit soldier number actually does not look too bad - I've seen worse and more clumsy work. I'm not
    aware if "four digit soldier numbers" were still in use during WW2, but please have a look at the british
    broad arrow. This was stamped in using 3 hits with chissel or something - but the "real broad arrow" is always
    punched in as whole.
    The next is the pitting - again a chissel or another pointy tool was used to hit the blade again and again -
    unfortunately a few hits missed and also hit the bolster, which shows what was tried here.
    If the pitting is to "similar" (read: same depth of pitting, equally distributed, all spots of similar size, etc.)
    then there is a good chance that the pitting is artificial.

    Here a military strap arround the tourist type scabbard to emphasis its military use - and a recent tourist grade
    kukri becomes a bring back from WW2 .....

    I've seen tourist MKV (which - if my info is correct - are identical to those issued) with crudely carved in
    soldier numbers and sold as WW2 as well.
    Here we need again keep in mind that the MKV was put into service long after WW2. If it looks like the MKV in
    Jonathans article (black horn handle, brass mounts, less than 12 inch blades ...) it is not from WW2.

    4. The "authentique fake"

    There is a forth and very hard to spot fake out there that is upsetting me since some time now. A certain ebay seller
    whom I will not name is actually specialized in this type of fraud - and as he is obviously reading the forums
    I appeal to him to think twice about what he is doing.

    He actually is using authentique, unstamped kukris from the era in question (WW2 or even earlier) and is putting
    fake military stamps (from prominent makers, gurkha units, etc.) on them.
    By doing this an actual authentique kukri is soiled with the foul taste of a fake - and at least to me
    becomes worthless - I'd never bid on such a piece - no matter how well it would fit its timescale.

    So keeping in mind how many bidders he looses compared to those he manages to deceive, I doubt that overall his
    gain is remarkably high ... and he destroys a kukri ... think about it !!


    Those 4 are the most common types of kukri fakes I became aware of so far - I guess there are plenty more.
    Please do not hestitate to report a "strange sighting", either by replying to this post or starting a new one.
    That is what this forum is for - and if possible post before you make the buy !

    I'm aware that sharing such info is a two edged sword - as there is a good chance that the fraudsters read
    it as well and will change strategy.
    Nevertheless I take the position that not talking about the features of fakes serves the fraudsters even more
    and that as much info as possible is the best protection against being ripped off.
    And for certain they can't change all the fakes that are circeling the market already.

    Thanks

    I didn't come that with all by myself - actually I owe this information to many learned and committed researchers
    and all those who share there kukri with us.
    Which makes the "Thank you list" a bit long ......

    So instead of listing all the individuals I'm certainly indepted to, I'd like to thank all of you who post their kukris and
    add to this forum. It is you who give all the small details to tell a fake from a real piece !

    I learn something from every kukri that is shown here - no matter how beaten down or simple it may look.
    Actually when looking at fakes the details of low end production kukris are of special interest. As the
    fraudsters are looking for maximum margins they usually take mass produced pieces that are easy to come by for
    a small money. So if features of such pieces are found again on a "piece with history" alarm sirenes should
    go off.

    Nevertheless there are two people that deserve a direct mention. These are Kristof Verjans from Belgium and
    a german collector I unfortunately only know by his online identity named araldis.
    I'd like to express my thanks for granting me permission to use pictures of their fakes to help others avoiding
    getting ripped off as well.
    Gents, it is easy to post pictures of a neat, breath taking, pre 1900 kothimora and collect the congratulations and the
    envy of fellow collectors.
    It takes a completely different attitude to admit that one has been ripped off and instead hiding away (or even
    reselling) the fake, to step up and point it out, so that others can protect themselves against the loss of money and
    disappointment.
    Kristof, Araldis: I bow to you !

    Legal stuff

    The pictures underlined with the words "with courtesy of araldis" and "with courtesy of Kristof Verjans" are
    the private property of these Gentlemen and are used in this post with their kind permission.
    They are copyrightened and reproduction or reuse is prohibited.

    For the rest of the info including pictures and text please feel free to spread, reuse, etc.
    I make no copyright claims. The more people know about the fakes the better.

    Just one plea: If you use parts of the info, please add SFI and a link to this thread in your refferences when doing so.

    I hope you found some of the info given here useful.
    I'd like to aplogize for taking that long to post this info. Getting everything in the right order and actually finding
    the time to write it up took far longer than I thought.

    best of luck with your next kukri purchase
    kind regards

    Andreas Volk
    Last edited by Andreas Volk; 10-24-2007 at 08:55 AM.
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  2. #2
    Execelent post Andreas!

    I know how long it takes to do something like that so thankyou for taking the time.

    I would say this should definatly be a sticky , so all newcomers can see it.

    Regarding the commenest marked 1917 fake it is both retailed & wholesailed all over the world by worldwidearms international & has been for many years.

    They are sold with the fake ordanance markings already added. The cost £39 retail each, a couple of years ago they were £30 each so buisness must be good.

    Wholesale in bulk from them ready marked is nearer £15 each I am told.

    The Indian, Pakistani & Nepali companys who make kukri will put any markings a customer wants on them.

    Heres a link.

    http://www.worldwidearms.com/popup.c...7252&p_i=97252

    I understand if you wish to delete the link & name of the company.

    cheers,
    Spiral

  3. #3
    Heres worldwidearms.com there aborted foetus from hell fake kukri bayonet ready rusted for quick resale.

    http://www.worldwidearms.com/popup.c...421&p_i=387421

    All thier French, Japanese Hungarian & British swords are also fake, & I watch dealers, auction houses & ebay merchants rip off merchants sell scores of them evry week. {for many years.}

    Actualy thier French swords look fairly good & their Japanese NCO & Russian swords are so brilliantly faked only experts can usualy tell.

    The fact they sell a few cheap bits & many genuinue guns adds to peoples confusian.

    Basicaly if they selll someting at more than its worth its probably genuine, if it looks a good deal its a fake.


    Many people have complained about this buisness for the last 35 years, they dont sue people, {theyed lose.} But no one stops there buisness.

    You want a £1,000,000 of arms tommorow, genuine of fake they can arrange it.

    But in 10 years time well see dumbers who are today upcoming collecters who think there stuff is genuine.


    Spiral

  4. #4
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    blade with ordnance markings ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan R. S. View Post
    They are sold with the fake ordanance markings already added. The cost £39 retail each, a couple of years ago they were £30 each so buisness must be good.

    Wholesale in bulk from them ready marked is nearer £15 each I am told.

    The Indian, Pakistani & Nepali companys who make kukri will put any markings a customer wants on them.

    Heres a link.

    http://www.worldwidearms.com/popup.c...7252&p_i=97252
    ...
    Jonathan, Thanks a lot for your kind words - it is really appreciated and actually i enjoyed writing the post as such an article had been on my mind since some long time.

    Well I told our fellow member Christopher when he posted his fake here:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=82916
    (btw. a very good example of the 2. Type of fake: MKIII handled MKII)
    that he missed my in depth look on fake kukris by a week ... that was more than one month ago
    Yes, I certainly underestimated the time such a short essay takes.

    On the kukri offered by worldwidearms:

    Where is my liitle green "throw up" emoticon when I need it .
    That really gives me the creeps and thanks for pointing it out.

    The pieces I were aware of (and which are perfectly OK) are for example listed here.
    http://www.northstarzone.com/page5.html
    Attention: Page takes some time to load.

    the 2nd kukri on that page "17" Kukri Knife Supreme. Heavy Weight Fancy." This is the version with the red leather scabbard. It is unstamped and can be had for 27.99 USD.
    They don't promise anything historical and for that money that kukri is a honest deal.

    But I wasn't aware that you can get the stamped ones already "wholesale" on the net.
    Well as mentioned in the original post, to me the kukri that Worldwidearms is selling here is a fake - as it is already "build" to appear like something it isn't.

    "Standard WW1 pattern ...." aha - well, hopefully I could point out the lack of any WW1 feature in the initial post.

    But as they only claim this to be a "pattern" and the don't express explicitely the stamps to be original - so they are most likely safe from law suits.
    But it is good to have such business pointed out.

    Thanks for the warning ...

    Andreas
    Last edited by Andreas Volk; 10-24-2007 at 10:54 AM.
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  5. #5
    Great post! I do share the concern that you voiced however, that you in some ways have provided a primer for con artists. They will now know what it takes to make their fakes that much better. Damned if you do and damned if you don't...
    Tritonworks Custom Scabbards
    www.tritonworks.com

  6. #6
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    Fake kukri Bayonets ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan R. S. View Post
    Heres worldwidearms.com there aborted foetus from hell fake kukri bayonet ready rusted for quick resale.

    http://www.worldwidearms.com/popup.c...421&p_i=387421

    ....l
    Cheers Spiral,
    Ahh that one. This is a much questioned thing. In their Book "British and Commonwealth Bayonets" the authors Skenneton and Richardson also voice their doubt about the authenticity of this piece. They don't feature a picture but refer to the one shown on "The Bayonet Book" by Watts and White. The bayonet featured there to my info is the same that we see sold by WorldWideArms.

    In the "Bayonet Book", Watts & White express their doubts as to the authenticity of the kukri bayonet illustrated there (n. 743) which has been previously accepted by collectors since its inclusion in "British Military Bayonets" by Wilkinson-Latham. This particular bayonet is shown in the in the Reproduction & Fakes section of this book and the real "kookrie" bayonets, which have been sold of by Nepal in more recent years, are illustrated here as I12, I13 and I14
    source: "British and Commonwealth Bayonets", by Ian D. Skennerton and Robert Richardson. First edition, 1986, Published by Ian D. Skennerton, Australia, page 320

    So is seems that the kukri bayonets sold by WorldWideArms have been arround for a long time then, since Wilkinson-Latham publiched his book in 1969.

    So as of now the only kukri bayonet we can be sure of being authentique is the type that you shared with us in the thread over here:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=84084

    ... as soon as I was able to collect some more info on this potential "fake kukri-bayonet" I'll add it to my fake list.

    Thanks again for the heads up - such info is much important!

    Andreas
    Last edited by Andreas Volk; 10-25-2007 at 08:57 AM.
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  7. #7
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    act and react

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Ellis View Post
    Great post! I do share the concern that you voiced however, that you in some ways have provided a primer for con artists. They will now know what it takes to make their fakes that much better. Damned if you do and damned if you don't...
    Hello Russ,
    Thanks a lot for the appriciation - glad if I was able to add some helpful information.

    On the role "fraudster" vs. "researcher/collector", to my opinion that is the same game like "virus-programmer" vs. "antivirus software developer".
    As latter can only react to when a virus was reported to hit the net, we researchers first need to see the balde that came up. So we are doomed to the passive role and the fraudster is always one step ahead

    And reffering to the 1916, 35 fake i saw while writing the draft of my post, the fraudsters are getting better even without me
    If that stamp would not have been on a brass-mount fake I might have taken it for real. Size and lettering were very close to the original.

    So going back on viruses; you can either protect your PC and hope that you are not the first to get hit by the virus or you can do nothing and reinstall your system every month.
    I'm certain that todays viruses are so vicious and clever based to the fact that they need to outwit the protection software - but I actually prefer my virus shield eating up some processor power.

    The only way to stop the fraudsters that apperas to me is - unfortunately not moral and ethics - but money.
    Get their margin down. When they are at one point forced to use a replica that is as good as the high quality modern relicas of the MKII one can get today plus the effort to make it look antique and build close to original stamps, then their margin will be go down significantly and they might look for something more profitable than selling kukri fakes (not that I assume that this new business will be any more legal).

    But I fear I'm seeing things too simple - as there'll be new collectors there might always be market for these lowe end fakes - but in the meantime I'll try my best to get there efforts up (which means margins down).

    Time will tell.

    Andreas
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Volk View Post
    Hello Russ,

    The only way to stop the fraudsters that apperas to me is - unfortunately not moral and ethics - but money.
    Get their margin down. When they are at one point forced to use a replica that is as good as the high quality modern relicas of the MKII one can get today plus the effort to make it look antique and build close to original stamps, then their margin will be go down significantly and they might look for something more profitable than selling kukri fakes (not that I assume that this new business will be any more legal).


    Andreas
    That's a very novel take on the idea, and the first time I've ever heard that particular strategy expressed. Heck it might even work! I certainly hope so. In the meantime I certainly learned a lot from your article. To this point I've purchased exactly one antique khukri as a gift and that was on a recommendation from Mr. Evans. I'm glad he knew what was good and what was not, because I certainly did not.
    Tritonworks Custom Scabbards
    www.tritonworks.com

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Volk View Post
    Cheers Spiral,
    Ahh that one. This is a much questioned thing. In their Book "British and Commonwealth Bayonets" the authors Skenneton and Richardson also voice their doubt about the authenticity of this piece. They don't feature a picture but refer to the one shown on "The Bayonet Book" by Watts and White. The bayonet featured there to my info is the same that we see sold by WorldWideArms.

    Andreas
    Thats scary to me Andreas that such a respected figure as Wilkinson could be so wrong! Still I often find mistakes in many experts work on any subject I seriusly research.


    Ive handled 20 or so of these some dating to the 1970s, most a clearly modern mass production steel made with power tools.

    Pre 1910 steel is very different in texture....

    Ive seen 2 I am told were bought in the the 70s that were apparently genuine ww2 mk.3 blades, {with ww2 markings, welded to old English made brown bess bayonet sockets.}

    The modern sockets are incomparable to the originals when handled.

    Some of the modern ones carry clearly fake ww2 markings! {guess they copy the older fakes!}

    Deepeeka.com make the modern fakes, artcreations as well.. But in Dehradun alone there are over 400 kukri producing firms, a few might only make 10 a day but most can make 100s. The biggest ones can forfill an 80,000 piece kukri order within 3 months. They will all copy anything you give them.

    Even The Victoreans faked kukri bayonets, becaause they were so rare even then. But if it looks like a blade welded onto an elbow or socket it shoud raise extrme doubts..... If the socket is British & the blade old it might have been cobbled together for some palace guard in 1900 or so perhaps? But personly I think there 110 years of fleecing involved.

    Bayonet collecting was common in those days....


    Collecters, dealers, authers & experts like Jefff Hayes, Dennis Ottobre, Smithy etc. all have the expierience to write these of as fakes...

    But if they didnt I would stand alone & on my own judgment & say, the steel material, the manufacture & indeed the blade & fuller design is all WW2 or later...


    Ill send you an email illustrating many examples of kukri bayonet fakes therough the years, sorry I dont have permision for it them to be published.... But it might help your research.

    Spiral

  10. #10
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    Fake bayos

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan R. S. View Post
    Ill send you an email illustrating many examples of kukri bayonet fakes therough the years, sorry I dont have permision for it them to be published.... But it might help your research.

    Cheers Spiral.
    Thanks a lot for the pictures - I received them and studied them with much interest ! Great stuff and they make the "welding problem" that those pieces have very obvious ...
    I'll hunt for pictures to publish from now on, to add those to the fake documentation.

    Thanks again for the help

    Andreas
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  11. #11
    Hi everybody. Andreas, I want to thank you for this historical post, which opens new ways to avoid the frauds commited against our addiction brothers. And I dont think think this is an exaggeration, as in the same way there are no systematic studies published about the diverse forms and evolution of the khukri, apart fron the scarce articles from John Powell, the late director of Himalaya Imports, and of course, our dear friend and brother in addiction, Jonathan aka "Spiral", there is not, also, similar systematic aproaches to avoid fraud in the sale on this pieces. I thank to every persona who made contributions in this thread.

    From my part, I want to add another sort of fraud, usually commited against my fellow latin american friends, taking advantage of their naivete in this sort of weapons, bad known in my latitudes. This fraud is often accompanied by the old fraund of the-badge-in-the-scabbard. I will post a photograph of the sort of "Gorkha Army MKV" military khukri used to deceit this people. It is a rough fraud, very clumsy made, but works:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Gonzalo G; 11-21-2007 at 11:36 PM.

  12. #12
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    Excellent Articule Andreas If only newcomers to the khukuri World could read the articule before they started their collecting career

  13. #13
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    the "stamped tourist fake"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzalo G View Post
    ....
    From my part, I want to add another sort of fraud, usually commited against my fellow latin american friends, taking advantage of their naivete in this sort of weapons, bad known in my latitudes. This fraud is often accompanied by the old fraund of the-badge-in-the-scabbard. I will post a photograph of the sort of "Gorkha Army MKV" military khukri used to deceit this people. It is a rough fraud, very clumsy made, but works:
    Hi Gonzalo - thanks for the kind words. I hope that some collectors new to the world of kukri do their research before the buy.
    At the very moment there is a WW1 kukri on ebay - no pictures - but it is stamped 1917, 37 - with brass mounts. That should ring some bells .

    Thank you very much for adding the picture of this fraud. I'd say it falls in category III (the stamped MKV / tourist).
    It looks a very clumsy version (copy) of the MKV - with "soldier number" added to make it look authentique.

    Actually there is nothing to complain about the "Goorkha Army" isncription. I have a very clumsy tourist with the same inscription.
    To my understanding it is used for the same purpose like "special forces" printed on a cheap 10$ bowie with green plastic handle and camouflage scabbard.
    As to give a touch of "Rambo" to a cheap mass produced knife this inscription is used to invoke images of the fierce Gurkhas to some lowcost tourist run.

    Thanks a lot for sharing this one - a classic example! The more frauds we can add here, the better the chances to avoid them!

    Muchos Gracias

    Andreas
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  14. #14
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    Beginners ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hengle View Post
    Excellent Articule Andreas If only newcomers to the khukuri World could read the articule before they started their collecting career
    Hi Simon,
    Glad to read from you again and thanks for the kind words. If the new collectors do there research than there are many good fora now where they can ask and learn.
    Far different than let's say 7 years ago ! And I realize that you are also quite active in batteling frauds on various platforms.
    Thank you for that - it is not without personal risk and can't be appreciated high enough!

    All the best

    Andreas
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  15. #15
    Heres another key to the fakes history, sold on ebay by another common purveyer of fakes. {He sells one of these a month all year round.}

    it carries both the badley done more modern fake Co 1917 37 etc markings & the older fake coig 1916 43 marks.











    I think this probably demonstrates that the same producers & importers have been behind these 2 fake styles of kukri for at least 2 decades probably 3.

    Spiral
    Last edited by Jonathan R. S.; 01-29-2008 at 01:31 PM. Reason: pics....

  16. #16
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    Fake stamp styles

    Hi Spiral.
    Sorry for the late reply but I now found some time to work myself through my "comment backlog" on SFI .

    Thanks for posting this "direct" comparison of the fake stamps used. I never thought to find those on one blade - I hope that it rang an alamr bell to some potential buyers that this blade was inspected twice .

    Actually I don't know how old these fake stamps are - but I share your observation that the small ones are "older" and have been arround longer.
    The larger newer ones are quite "artistic" in their appearance, but the size of those is quite close to what one usually finds
    as authentique stamped pieces.
    Those become dangerous when they are not fully stamped but hit partially, with some parts of the letters fading .... than they can look quite close to the real stamp.
    As mentioned in the initial post - one of the larger ones not fully hit really amazed me when i saw it on a german militaria platform: "Those fakres are getting better" was my initial thought.

    So thanks for digging up this kukri - it shows very well the two "defacto standards" for fake stamps on kukris today.

    And again the offer to the crowd: If you feel unsure about a stamp or a kukri: First ask. Simply provide a link to the sale ina thrad or shoot a pm.

    thanks again

    Andreas
    As lo, the boy looked upon the beauty of the forward curved blade, and beauty stayed his hands
    and from that day forward, he was financially doomed.

    King Kukri, 2005

  17. #17

    help with ID please

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by m dyson View Post
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    Hi
    Yours falls into the not fake camp but it is a tourist piece.
    These are made by the crate load but are not made to deceive.
    These are the most common of tourist kukri made and have been done so for many years possibly back to the 30's and in every level of quality.
    Sorry not to be telling you better news but there it is.
    Captain.
    PARTING THE CLOUDS SEEKING THE WAY
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts.

  19. #19
    Thanks for your help. I was given it by a friend and it was all red rust. Not my kind of thing and I didnt want to deceive anyone when I pass it on.
    regards
    mike

  20. #20
    Great conversation. Very helpful I must say.

  21. #21
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    Great thread.

    Does anyone recognize the following Khukri? I am trying to get a little more information on it for the friend of mine who owns it. I've been digging around the origins of the Khukri online and finally stumbled on this thread.

    It was given to her as a gift and perhaps the accompanying note sums it up and there is nothing else to say... But I thought I would ask. There are no military markings and the engraving on the blade is the same on both sides. The note calls it a Royal Nepalese Ghurka Camp Khukri - but I have been unable to find any other examples with these engravings...

    Length 11 3/4 inches, blade length 8 inches

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    Last edited by Matthew Honey; 11-08-2015 at 05:54 AM.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Honey View Post
    Great thread.

    Does anyone recognize the following Khukri? I am trying to get a little more information on it for the friend of mine who owns it. I've been digging around the origins of the Khukri online and finally stumbled on this thread.

    It was given to her as a gift and perhaps the accompanying note sums it up and there is nothing else to say... But I thought I would ask. There are no military markings and the engraving on the blade is the same on both sides. The note calls it a Royal Nepalese Ghurka Camp Khukri - but I have been unable to find any other examples with these engravings...

    Length 11 3/4 inches, blade length 8 inches

    Here are the pics.Name:  image.jpg
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Views: 5676
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    Hi,


    Most presented kukri are kukri bought from a local shop for presentation. If the letter is correct, I would guess its the case with this example
    le..

    It looks a fairly typical commercially found kukri , one see in Nepal. It doesn't appear to be an issue kukri to me. The issue kukri there have got smaller over the years but as recently as 2005 the minimum blade length for army & police kukri was still 9 inches.

    Nice keepsake for the person or family given it though.

    Spiral
    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge."

    Daniel J. Boorstin

  23. #23
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    Thanks Jonathan.

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