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Thread: Cheness shobu zukuri

  1. #76
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    BTW, here's a preview of Dynasty's upcoming shobu:



    Dunno why but IMO the overall shape looks a bit weird?
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    BTW, here's a preview of Dynasty's upcoming shobu:



    Dunno why but IMO the overall shape looks a bit weird?
    To me, it doesn't look very graceful at all. There is no fumbari and no taper to the kissaki (don't know that term yet), and the tsuka looks closer to a Hanwei piece because it's so straight relative to the curvature of the blade.
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  3. #78
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    Could someone post pics (or a link to pics) of LL shobu and full blade length shots of Bugei Shobu?

    Now that I think of it, outlines of PC Mantis blade look pretty close to the nihonto on page one.. Not graceful, but..
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  4. #79
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    I didn't even know that LL had a shobu... Are you thinking of the Taketoshi? I think that one is basically the same as Oni Forge's Uno-kubi...

    Anyway, to me, this is the way a shobu blade "should be"... maybe it's just personal preference. But notice how the taper of the blade to kissaki (what is that term anyway?) is continuous throughout the length.... I really like that look. Very sleek and deadly and graceful.

    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  5. #80
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    I think the term you're looking for is fumbari?
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    I think the term you're looking for is fumbari?
    No... I don't think that's what fumbari is (at least, not the way I understood it when I read this):

    http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/kissaki.html#FUMBARI

    I'm looking for the term that means gradual taper toward the kissaki.
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    I think the term you're looking for is fumbari?
    ...Fumbari is the right term.

    -Karl
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl J View Post
    ...Fumbari is the right term.

    -Karl
    "A large width at the base and narrow head doesn't mean it is a fumbari.
    Such form is just a "wide base and narrow head".
    Fumbari is not a matter of width but it is a matter of the rate of change.
    Fumbari is a conscious width and thickness that becomes larger at the base."

    That's from the "Usagiya" site... I'm just assuming that they know what they're talking about, and also since they are native Japanese speakers. Perhaps something is getting lost in translation, but I am positive fumbari is not the term I'm looking for.
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin P. View Post
    "A large width at the base and narrow head doesn't mean it is a fumbari.
    Such form is just a "wide base and narrow head".
    Fumbari is not a matter of width but it is a matter of the rate of change.
    Fumbari is a conscious width and thickness that becomes larger at the base."

    That's from the "Usagiya" site... I'm just assuming that they know what they're talking about, and also since they are native Japanese speakers. Perhaps something is getting lost in translation, but I am positive fumbari is not the term I'm looking for.
    Fumbari is not a matter of width but it is a matter of the rate of change.
    Fumbari is a conscious width and thickness that becomes larger at the base."


    Fumbari is used to describe the profile taper in width from the machi to the kissaki over the length of the blade...

    It is plain as day from the site you yourself quoted...

    I fail to see what you aren't grasping about the use of the term.

    -Karl
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  10. #85
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    This blade has moderate fumbari


    In this blade it is much more pronounced.


    Pictures courtesy of Aoi Art
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl J View Post
    Fumbari is not a matter of width but it is a matter of the rate of change.
    Fumbari is a conscious width and thickness that becomes larger at the base."


    Fumbari is used to describe the profile taper in width from the machi to the kissaki over the length of the blade...

    It is plain as day from the site you yourself quoted...

    I fail to see what you aren't grasping about the use of the term.

    -Karl


    "Every blade has a form where the width and the thickness becomes larger toward the tang.
    Fumbari is a form that has a large rate of change on the base."

    The red lines in the above picture from the site tell the same story. There is absolutely nothing in the description about taper from machi all the way to the kissaki except what you're adding/projecting... Seems to me that fumbari is just what happens in the last 1/4 or 1/5 of the blade at the machi, not over the length of the whole blade.

    Re. your pictures.... again, the site says:

    "A large width at the base and narrow head doesn't mean it is a fumbari. Such form is just a "wide base and narrow head".

    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  12. #87
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    fumbari

    The amount of tapering from motohaba to sakihaba gradually along the length of the blade .

    even amongst production swords different fumbari is easily discernible -

    and I mean no disrespect at all - honestly I dont but I am inclined to agree with all the polishers,collectors and JSA people ive spoken with over the years who all have the same definition of fumbari as Karl

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  13. #88
    Does anyone has more detailed pictures of the Cheness shobu?

    The pictures on their site are kind of small.

  14. #89
    Here's a detailed review for Cheness Shobu for anyone interested.

    http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/shobu-zukuri.html

  15. #90
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    Ayame vs. The Great Wave

    Paul Chen's "The Great Wave" with its long (o) kissaki...is far superior in design and overall strength than that of the needle-point (breakoff real quick if you screw up) Cheness "Ayame" (same manufacturer...better katana).

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent A. Finizio View Post
    Paul Chen's "The Great Wave" with its long (o) kissaki...is far superior in design and overall strength than that of the needle-point (breakoff real quick if you screw up) Cheness "Ayame" (same manufacturer...better katana).
    Two different Paul Chen's, mate.. As well as two different sugata altogether.
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  17. #92
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    Fumbari would refer to the part above the machis that is slightly larger than the rest and taper gently for a couple of inches, fumbari is rarely seen on suriage and never seen on osuriage, but just because a sword is ubu doesnt mean it obligatory have fumbari.

    I do not think that it apply to the entire shape and towards the kissaki.

    Timo, i dont like the tsuka on that one, too straight with such a deep sori dont fit (my opinion here).

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by P. Gallick View Post
    Good grief. Do you work for Bugei? Bugei, Bugei, Bugei. Yes, we all know you have a Bugei. Good for you. You can stop now.

    It just makes people go "ooooooo!" and buy the blade.

    -P

    No I do not work for them, I know them well. Ive bought their goods, and like other swords, Ive gotten rid of most but my Bugei, and LL.

    I bought thier Shobu because the other ones where to heavy for me.

    I can not see why others would want to buy the beater class swords and try an compare them to the higher quality ones. This is like comparing these production swords to custom ones. Jsut not possible

    After being gone for a long time, and reading this, I was not in a good mood when I wrote a lot of this. so sorry.

    BTW after reviewing the pictures here, Id say that both the Bugei and LL geometry are way off from true Shobu Zukuri
    "Silly Caucasian Girl, likes to play with Samurai swords"

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan M. View Post
    Heh, I'm not a big fan of shobu myself, but I feel the same, with the bugei blade coming second. Too bad the polish on the cheness is, well, cheap, otherwise it would make a really good looking blade.
    in this situation, apart from getting the blade professionally polished, what could you do to improve it. i've heard people mention "quick and dirty" hybrid polishing, what is that?

    thanks

    kris

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin P. View Post


    "Every blade has a form where the width and the thickness becomes larger toward the tang.
    Fumbari is a form that has a large rate of change on the base."

    The red lines in the above picture from the site tell the same story. There is absolutely nothing in the description about taper from machi all the way to the kissaki except what you're adding/projecting... Seems to me that fumbari is just what happens in the last 1/4 or 1/5 of the blade at the machi, not over the length of the whole blade.

    Re. your pictures.... again, the site says:

    "A large width at the base and narrow head doesn't mean it is a fumbari. Such form is just a "wide base and narrow head".

    what you are saying is correct Ben -it is not the profile taper of the blade.

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