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Thread: Need help in the hunt for a backyard variety katana without Bo-hi

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    Thanks Mario. I'll definitely will be checking the links. And I'll be sure to ask you for help as soon as I get started on the blade. (as soon as decide which one it is...)
    So, to reduce the fukura, I'd have to start on the ko shinogi?
    If the... hmm... (don't know how it's called), place where the ko shinogi meets the shinogi isn't where the kissaki begins, how should I do it?
    Should I fear digging through the hamon while giving a true yokote to a DH blade?
    Angelo, I added two pictures, one showing how I'm polishing/shaping the kissaki:
    The orange is a file. Red arrows show the movement. Blue lines shows the movement. You will not want to touch the green area too much. You'll be removing/defining some of the koshinogi to keep consistency. Brown shows the masking tape.

    As I mentioned earlier, sandpaper can take forever, files can take too much, too fast. You'll have to find a balance... play soft with the file.
    The second file I attached shows the japanese names for most all parts (I believe) of the tip of a japanese sword. You are worried about the mitsugashira?
    Also, you should not fear digging through the hamon, it's inside the metal anyway (for the DH).
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    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  2. #52
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    Thanks Mario! I needed that picture!

    So what I wanted to say is:

    I've noticed that on cheap blades the mitsugahara doesn't match the mitsukado. How should I make the yokote in that case?

    Oh, and the first picture sure helps. I did something similar on my SLO, but I ended up digging through the tape on the koshinogi.

    If the blade is DH, should I worry about digging thorugh the hamon then?
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  3. #53
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    I've noticed that on cheap blades the mitsugahara doesn't match the mitsukado. How should I make the yokote in that case?
    I'm not 100% sure about this one. I've read somewhere else that the the yokote line should follow 'the flow' of the sword, so it is not wrong if the yokote has an angle other than vertical in 90º. Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong. I guess I remember seeing some custom swords made this way, but again, I'm not sure. Anyway, if the yokote is polished you can remake it. If you compare my PPK kissaki with a brand new PPK, you'll see that my 'new' yokote line is placed a little behind. To answer your question, if the yokote needs to be 90º straight, just place the tape that way.. lots of tape to guide the file/sandpaper correctly.


    Oh, and the first picture sure helps. I did something similar on my SLO, but I ended up digging through the tape on the koshinogi.
    Yeah, that's a problem. This is way I said to play soft with file and grits. It is very easy to take too much. On the picture, the green area is not masked. I tried masking this part once but wasn't very happy with the results. IT just make the boushi/fukura a little curved while koshinogi is kept intact. I guess that's not how it is supposed to be made.. but again, I may be wrong tough. All I know is that my tip seems be much better after I removed the masking tape of koshinogi area.[/quote]


    If the blade is DH, should I worry about digging thorugh the hamon then?
    Since it is inside the metal, no. You will only remove the etch. Again, if you do with files, play sooooft with it. It can leave deep scratches hard to remove if too strong.
    ----------------------------
    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  4. #54
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    Thumbs up YES!!! Miracle find!

    I don't know if any of you remembers my "provocative" thread: How accurate is forging? Well, forget all the blades we've been talking about.
    I just found a shop that sell a blade with dimensions within an inch of what I was looking for. 91cm nagasa, 33 cm tsuka. (It has bo-hi, but I mean, COME ON!).
    The shop is Italy based. (great news for EU folks like me) The owner is really friendly. And he sells stuff you wouldn't believe. Sure most of them are brandless items, but he has what I'm looking for.
    The shop is called Yarinohanzo.

    http://www.yarinohanzo.com/index.php...5c50678552a4a2

    If I buy the "Shimizu O-katana" I'm going to repolish it; reshape the kissaki, while giving it a true yokote; giving it a cosmetic hamon a-la-PPK, and possibly making a new tsuka. Curiously, I enjoy the fittings which happen to be identical to the Blood Reign featured in Sword-buyers-guide that received some attention.

    So, what do you guys think?
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-10-2007 at 01:03 PM.
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  5. #55
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    I'd say that if he's selling that sword for 150 euro, it must be worth some 80-90 bucks on ebay... Good luck and keep us posted about how it works.

    Edit, sorry, it's 190 there which shoul make it 120 bucks on ebay. Still you need some luck. But hey, you won't waste a lot of money and if the customizing doesn't work, at least you won't be very sorry.
    Last edited by Bogdan M.; 11-10-2007 at 01:18 PM.
    Against ignorance, gods themselves struggle in vain.

  6. #56
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    I know Bogdan. After all that talk I'm going to throw my money at something unknown. But the pros outweigh the cons on this one. Besides, ebay (unless its a EU seller) makes for quite spectacular problems over here. (at least in my experience) You think I shouldn't chance it? I'm just looking for a decent beater. Assuming there is nothing wrong with it, or that I fix what may be, it is actually a good thing it's shaped (more or less) like I like it. Right?
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  7. #57
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    Well, by the shape of the kissaki, I'd say that it's made by the same forge that does Zhi swords.

    At least it's through hardened, so it should be quite forgiving, which is essential given its length. But it's not really a "beater", I wouldn't cut anything too serious with it.

    You have to think you might need to redo the tsuka too. If that doesn't bother you, I guess it's ok as a sword to learn thigs on.
    Against ignorance, gods themselves struggle in vain.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan M. View Post
    Well, by the shape of the kissaki, I'd say that it's made by the same forge that does Zhi swords.

    At least it's through hardened, so it should be quite forgiving, which is essential given its length. But it's not really a "beater", I wouldn't cut anything too serious with it.

    You have to think you might need to redo the tsuka too. If that doesn't bother you, I guess it's ok as a sword to learn thigs on.
    Thanks Bogdan. Learning things on is exactly the idea. I can't wait!
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan M. View Post
    I wouldn't cut anything too serious with it.
    I second that. In the end, I really think that we should get the best value of budget x satisfaction. If this o-katana makes it for you, go for it!
    ----------------------------
    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  10. #60
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    you'll be disapointed

    Please dont buy this with a view to cutting with it or trying to re-shape the kissaki and give it a real yokote - its such an unknown quantity and that kissaki is one of the worst ive seen -

    A PK XL or a Cheness Shura and a KC 29II might not have a real yokote but they do have a geometric kissaki area to work with if you want to reshape it,

    This thing looks like a flat blade - way too thin for cutting at that
    length with no geometry in the kissaki to speak of , I cannot see any ko-shinogi and that kissaki looks like it was stenciled on the blade - its appalling .

    I only speak out of concern for a fellow forumite - get a decent beater - a PK elite or PK XL - modify it and give us all a
    great review and pics in the Home Improvement forum



    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 11-11-2007 at 05:15 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  11. #61
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    I know. The blade looks flimsy doesn't it? But I'll go with it anyway.
    I'm reasonable enough to see how far things can go. And if it's water bottles, then watter bottles it is. As for the reshaping of the kissaki, and the polish... I think it's a bit to soon to say it can't be done. Sure that from the look of the blade there isn't that much to work with, but I'm pretty sure I can make something out of it. Something better.

    If I want a real beater later on, then the blades we spoke of before are sure bets. But understand. I prefer staring with this (that I wanted for a long time), than with a better blade that I won't like as much, (believe me on this).

    Thanks Mick. Even though I'm still buying this, I'll keep your words in mind. Besides, I love swords, cutting things, and having fun, but I love being alive and well a LOT more. I won't push it too far.

    I'll keep everyone posted.
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  12. #62
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    Hundred bucks says it's a sub-$100 sword from Longquan, China. I'm 99,5% sure the tsuka is one-size-fits-none construction. And didn't you say you wanted a real hamon; this one has none?

    Remember the value of Euro. €190 = $280 USD! Plus, I couldn't find any shipping info on the website..

    You might wanna take a look at this thread:
    http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=84600
    Last edited by Timo Qvintus; 11-11-2007 at 11:33 AM.
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  13. #63
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    I'd say the sword nears the 100€ mark in true value, give or take 20€. But the tsuka isn't an issue. I can make one for 40-50€ and be sure that it works.

    The swords on the link are all pretty good, but I'm not going to pass up on a O-katana (that is sized just like I want it). My view has changed from a "beater" to "I've been looking for this kind of blade for a long time".

    The important thing here is the blade. I thought I might get a Cold Steel O-katana (same size). But I cant get it for less than 450€ over here. (The most I'll give for something that isn't supposed to be really high quality, like "tamagahane", proper polish, robust and well made koshirae, is about 300€)
    The Cheness O-kat is too short. Jussi has an LL that is pretty good, but again, too expensive. (If I could get one for 300€ that would be perfect)

    I would buy from the USA if it weren't for all the trouble. Let me explain:

    Let's say it was 200€ (more or less 290-300$). I'd pay up something like 70€ shipping, which makes it 270€. Assuming someone doesn't appropriate it in the customs, I'll get ringed for 100€ for sure in taxes. Plus some obscure tax that usually is around 20€. Then the police would confiscate the item, and I would have to make proof that it was for "collection", which you might realize is a dubious claim. It would get used, damaged and probably lost. If I did get it back it would take 1-2 months. This time, plus shipping usually means 2 and a half months before I see it. That combined with multiple journeys to either the customs of the weapons section of the police, plus a price that is twice more that what the actual item cost...
    This is for sure a very pessimistic view, but the reasonable one isn't much better.
    I sent things in from the us only once, and it was enough for me. Plus all the tales of custom troubles with swords vanishing over here... I won't buy a sword from the USA. (Amazingly enough, stuff from Honk Kong manages to get here in one week, bypassing the customs)

    Sure my money is pretty good over on the USA, but I'll pay for that here.

    My preference is an LL. Jussis's one seem light years away from Cheness, Hanwei or anything else. But since this blade is here, and so cheap... It's hard to resist. Even rationally, it's a reasonable deal.

    Perhaps you guys can help me figure out if there is any way to get a better blade with a 36'' nagasa without having to spend more than 300€.
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-11-2007 at 01:11 PM.
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  14. #64
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    I'd go for a Zhi-sword if koshirae and chinata-polish isn't an issue for you. Shipping to Europe is $45 (at least it used to be, make sure you check), and you can get exactly the length you want (without bo-hi!), and many "custom" Zhi's have even a geometric yokote.
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post

    I would buy from the USA if it weren't for all the trouble. Let me explain:

    Let's say it was 200€ (more or less 290-300$). I'd pay up something like 70€ shipping, which makes it 270€. Assuming someone doesn't appropriate it in the customs, I'll get ringed for 100€ for sure in taxes. Plus some obscure tax that usually is around 20€. Then the police would confiscate the item, and I would have to make proof that it was for "collection", which you might realize is a dubious claim. It would get used, damaged and probably lost. If I did get it back it would take 1-2 months. This time, plus shipping usually means 2 and a half months before I see it. That combined with multiple journeys to either the customs of the weapons section of the police, plus a price that is twice more that what the actual item cost...
    This is for sure a very pessimistic view, but the reasonable one isn't much better.
    I sent things in from the us only once, and it was enough for me. Plus all the tales of custom troubles with swords vanishing over here... I won't buy a sword from the USA. (Amazingly enough, stuff from Honk Kong manages to get here in one week, bypassing the customs)
    Hell, what a heck of a trouble. Here in Brazil we "just" pay taxes = 66% of the product value + the shipping value. North American sword lovers are blessed . Can't get better than this, lol.
    So it wouldn't be better to find a hanwei reseller in Europe? I think I've found some websites around,.. something in the 300 Euros mark.
    ----------------------------
    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  16. #66
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    It may not seem Mario, because of Portugal being in the EU, but we're a third world country. EASY!
    Things inside the EU are just peachy, but "exotic" countries, (especially the USA), make for a lot of troubles in the customs. It's not rare to find double, or even triple taxes on the same item. Not to mention obscure taxes that just come out of nowhere, that you're obliged to pay, even though you check previously with the customs and they weren't mentioned. (I payed a tax for picking up the item myself on the customs warehouse, saving them the trouble of contacting the post office. Can you believe it?!?)

    But as I said before, I'm now going for an O-katana. The beater can wait.

    EDIT: Did I get it wrong, or did Aaron Justice just mention that Hanwei are making a Odachi??? Does anyone have any info on this? Nagasa? Price bracket? Koshirae? I mean, this may be it. If the size is right, (and the price too), this may be the better purchase, and no one will get worried about my safety...
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-12-2007 at 10:07 AM.
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

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