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Thread: Need help in the hunt for a backyard variety katana without Bo-hi

  1. #26
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    Yeah, I know. But Cheness itself has stated they do not make a traditional kissaki to keep the costs down. And since some people disagree to what is a "true" yokote, I trust Cheness' claim to theirs.
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  2. #27
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    Let the buyer beware...

    I have never handled a Cheness, so you could take my words with a grain of salt. From what I gather, they have sturdy blades, but the fittings (not to mention the way they mass-produce tsuka) have much to be desired. And as you know, the blade alone does not make a good serviceable sword.
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  3. #28
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    I know Jennifer... Actually, I'm afraid of making such a purchase... And in the last four months the SFI saw quite a bombardment of "my Cheness tsuka is busted" threads, percipitaded by Watanabe Hakujou's extremely unfortunate accident. I certainly do not want to be on either side of the ones involved in it.
    If I did buy a Cheness, first thing I'd do is check for any issues, and at the lightest suspicion, I'd carve an make my own tsuka. (did it once... kinda sucked... but the ito was prety good... imagine if I had used hishigami...)

    So Jo... Your sister has let go of the camera yet? Cause I could sure go for some pictures right now...
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    I know Jennifer... Actually, I'm afraid of making such a purchase... And in the last four months the SFI saw quite a bombardment of "my Cheness tsuka is busted" threads, percipitaded by Watanabe Hakujou's extremely unfortunate accident. I certainly do not want to be on either side of the ones involved in it.
    If I did buy a Cheness, first thing I'd do is check for any issues, and at the lightest suspicion, I'd carve an make my own tsuka. (did it once... kinda sucked... but the ito was prety good... imagine if I had used hishigami...)

    So Jo... Your sister has let go of the camera yet? Cause I could sure go for some pictures right now...
    Hey Angelo, I sent you a PM.
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  5. #30
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    Just read it Russo, and some of your thread too! So, how's it going with the "geometric" yokote? I gave an SLO of mine a yokote with coarse stone polish, then grits from 80, to 1200... wish I could get better grits. Wasn't perfect, but it was way better than the original. But I'm trying to avoid going there again with a new blade.
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  6. #31
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    yeah, I feel your pain. For the PPK I had a very bad time with grits and yokote, but then I decided to use files, but carefully. I'm using sandpaper to soften (remove) file scratches.. it's getting much better results now. If I was going to buy a sword to not touch anything on the blade, as I mentioned, I'd go with high end dynasty forge stone polished
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  7. #32
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    Kris cutlery

    None BoHi blade , 5160 differentialy hardened steel , subtle hamon
    a well shaped kissaki - not just scratched on with sand paper .

    did I mention these are monster cutters ?

    since the fall 1999 issue when a KC 29 was pitted against a gen 1 PK and a gen 1 golden oriole and did amazingly well ( the chen blades were early issues - far removed from the present generation of blades ) the KC katana has never looked back -

    the KC 26 , 29 and 27 mark II range al have removeable tsuka and iron fittings - no frills here guys - just a harder than a coffin nail beater - The Bingo Mihara bare blades are very popular amongst DIY sword mounters .

    Ive just picked up a discontinued KC shingen elite - its a beast of a sword , deep wide blade right into the kissaki area - great finish ,

    I defy anyone to show me a tougher katana than the KC 29 II for under $230 - and dont try mention shura or tenchi - please , the fittings are soft , cheap zinc alloy - not suitable for a working sword at all - remember a sword is only as good as its weakest part - soft , cheap fittings makes for a soft and cheap sword .

    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 11-07-2007 at 07:50 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



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  8. #33
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    Maybe that's just me but I find the Kissaki of the KC 29 II looks like cheap kissaki of most swords under $100 (and the bo-hi too).

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    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  9. #34
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    Mario, your yokote looks really good! It appears to be coming along quite nicely. Just one question: Is it just me, or the ko shinogi has been moved up a bit? It happened on my SLO, even through all the tape mask, and I ended up having to redefine the shinogi of the whole blade as well.
    As for KC katanas Michael, I have heard great things here in the forums, read the article too and I was impressed. But the not very traditional look scares me a bit. I might redo the tsuka and such, but to go over the polish (that is known to be pretty rough) might cost me too much time... and money... and Mario is right, the kissaki isn't real, but they do have well defined geometry. It definitely seems to be the best choice in terms of durability and safety. But I'd have to find a retailer here in the EU, otherwise the taxes will rise higher than oil and the sword will be "lost" by someone for sure.

    So, until a cheap blade with true yokote and no bo-hi comes along... I have as options:
    PPK elite
    Cheness Kaze or Shura


    That's it.

    Why didn't Paul Chen make a O-katana without the bo-hi??? I'd buy it!
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-07-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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  10. #35
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    EU import tax is a killer I know

    I had to pay £32 GB import tax to get my cheness 9260 out of the post depot -

    how about a practical dragonfly no bohi by WKC Solingen -

    very nice fittings , choice of three tsuba design , traditional materials iron , copper etc ,

    Ive read some good stuff about how great they are as mat cutters
    nice wide blades at 32mm motohaba , 24 mm sakihaba

    scant niku means a very sharp flat profile - ideal for mat cutting .

    I admit the none traditional KC tsuka is a turn off on the cheaper models - I was just trying to broaden your options -

    hang around the classifieds for a week or two and you will get a lot of sword for $300 - $400 - that might be a better option .


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    So... I'd be better off getting a shirasaya and furnishing it, or getting a Kaze or Shura right off the bat is better? Cause they appear to be having serious issues with the tsuka.

    They have a true yokote? They say in their movie they don't. Has that changed? Will you honorably post some honorable pictures, Jo ?
    I have a shura katana and let me tell you the following:

    1. In my experience with backyard cutters the shura is by far the best.
    2. It does not have a true yokote and I really wish they had! but it doesn't look so bad.
    3. the tsuka in the shura is VERY tight and compact. I haven't had a single problem with the tsuka at all.

    Hope this helps

  12. #37
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    Thanks Mick. Actually, after your tip on the KC I've been looking around for an EU retailer, but no luck so far. WKC is a nice thought... Gonna go check on that.

    Thanks for your input, Alex. Actually, I'd rather get a Kaze 'cause it's a tiny step closer to the traditional. It being DH and all.

    So, is there a blade with no bo-hi, true yokote, some niku...

    You guys know what... SFI should have a weapon loan system. Everyone interested chips in periodically, blades are acquired through vote. Divided by major regions, (USA + North Center South American Continent, EU + Europe, Asia). Subscribers place in requests in writing up for a review board, mentioning purpose and duration of the loan. If accepted, people pay a fee that goes into shipping, insurance, (in case something happens), and future purchase of other items. Not to mention it could be used on humanitarian purposes. This way anyone can handle a blade once in a while and expand their knowledge without having to blow away thousands of dollars on something they might not even want to keep. How about it?
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-08-2007 at 04:54 PM.
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  13. #38
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    yokote

    Cheness yokote are cosmetic - no actual change in geometry there - its a badly done cosmetic yokote as well , counter polished perpendicular instead of horizontal , very scratchy -

    Paul Chen |Hanwei classic musashi gen 1's have no BoHi and a very distinct yokote geometry change - they turn up on SFI classifieds and e-bay pretty regular ,

    Zhi sword have done a few katana for forumites with a real yokote
    but for the cost of a zhi 'custom' you could go mid range to high end paul chen - a folded PC Bushido will cost you $500 + but its
    light years ahead of anything else we have discussed here .


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRusso View Post
    Maybe that's just me but I find the Kissaki of the KC 29 II looks like cheap kissaki of most swords under $100 (and the bo-hi too).

    My KC Bingo has both of these done reasonably well, lightyears ahead of anything I've seen sub-$300 (except maybe some Roninswords, I'm not sure). By the look of that picture I'd say at least KC29's bo-hi is equally well made, and the kissaki doesn't look bad at all either.
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    Mario, your yokote looks really good! It appears to be coming along quite nicely. Just one question: Is it just me, or the ko shinogi has been moved up a bit? It happened on my SLO, even through all the tape mask, and I ended up having to redefine the shinogi of the whole blade as well.
    Yes, in this case, just slightly. I suppose the refinement of the shinogi makes the "final sharp" look that most nihonto or custom works do have.
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  16. #41
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    You're definetly on the right track Mario. Keep it up. It's going to look great!

    Timo, how did you get your KC? Was it from the EU?

    And Mick, you think the cheapest price for a blade with a true yokote lies in the 500$ mark? There isn't anything cheaper?
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    Timo, how did you get your KC? Was it from the EU?
    I wish.. I got it from SFI Classifieds, shipped from US.
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  18. #43
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    So if I bought any of the blades mentioned so far, below 300$, I'd probably have to:

    - Reshape the yokote. (can I reduce the fukura while doing this?)
    - Repolish the entire blade as well...
    - Redo the tsuka if it's... ill.
    - Give it a hybrid polish it it's through hardened

    Anything else?

    Any tutorials you guys might recommend on reducing the fukura and hybrid polishing? Or any of the other things as well?
    What kind of investment might I be looking at?
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  19. #44
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    Exactly what blades are we talking about here?

    And why would you hybrid polish a TH blade? (or do any polishing in any case, since you're looking for a backyard cutter IIRC?)
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    So if I bought any of the blades mentioned so far, below 300$, I'd probably have to:

    - Reshape the yokote. (can I reduce the fukura while doing this?)
    - Repolish the entire blade as well...
    - Redo the tsuka if it's... ill.
    - Give it a hybrid polish it it's through hardened

    Anything else?

    Any tutorials you guys might recommend on reducing the fukura and hybrid polishing? Or any of the other things as well?
    What kind of investment might I be looking at?
    the best tutorial of hybrid polish that I know of is:

    http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/hybridpolish.htm

    I do have a PDF here (don't remember where I got it) that shows the complete process of customizing a japanese sword, from the tsuka to the saya (and even etching), I can send to you if you need it. Other than that I know the http://www.zatoichi.de/, Andi B website, he is a member of SFI too.


    About the fukura, I wouldn't worry too much about this, just be careful to not take too much. Sandpaper can take forever and files can take too much too fast. It is a good idea to repolish the entire blade. The hybrid polish can be made to DH blades as well, as far as I know. But this will remove the etching (some like, some don't), if you like, you'll need to etch it again.
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    "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." General George S. Patton

  21. #46
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    Oh, sorry. I meant Cheness, Hanwei, KC. That kind of stuff.

    I meant a polish so it would have a decorative value. I mean, I can't be slaying watter bottles all the time. So, while I'm just showing it off to friends, might as well it be looking nice.
    You know, fake hamon, (properly executed so it tricks the unwise), true yokote, (rather than perpendicular scratches), a kissaki that... well, that's just a quirk of mine to have kamasu kissaki. You know, that kind of stuff.
    I mean, cutting will always be a very small part of the weapon's use. Most will be applied to getting used to the way the blade moves. I don't want no accidents. And it'll stay put most of the time.

    So can you help me with my last post? Would it be doable AND worth it?

    EDIT: Oh...! I didn't mean hybrid polish in the sense of bringing out a hamon per se. It would if it's there, (if I buy the Kaze) but also to create one if it isn't like in the Tenshi,Shura or KC 29.
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-09-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRusso View Post
    the best tutorial of hybrid polish that I know of is:

    http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/hybridpolish.htm

    I do have a PDF here (don't remember where I got it) that shows the complete process of customizing a japanese sword, from the tsuka to the saya (and even etching), I can send to you if you need it. Other than that I know the http://www.zatoichi.de/, Andi B website, he is a member of SFI too.


    About the fukura, I wouldn't worry too much about this, just be careful to not take too much. Sandpaper can take forever and files can take too much too fast. It is a good idea to repolish the entire blade. The hybrid polish can be made to DH blades as well, as far as I know. But this will remove the etching (some like, some don't), if you like, you'll need to etch it again.
    Thanks Mario. I'll definitely will be checking the links. And I'll be sure to ask you for help as soon as I get started on the blade. (as soon as decide which one it is...)
    So, to reduce the fukura, I'd have to start on the ko shinogi?
    If the... hmm... (don't know how it's called), place where the ko shinogi meets the shinogi isn't where the kissaki begins, how should I do it?
    Should I fear digging through the hamon while giving a true yokote to a DH blade?
    Last edited by Angelo Silva; 11-09-2007 at 03:35 PM.
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  23. #48
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    Ya, I was able to steal my sister's digital camera. but the camera wasn't good enough to get close up and focus on the kissaki, so I would just go by others words btw.

  24. #49
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    That's ok Jo. You probably got lucky on your purchase. (hope it happens to me too ). Please give me your input on your blade. It'll help me decide.

    Can a TH blade be DH further?
    Oblivion is the shield of the mind

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelo Silva View Post
    Can a TH blade be DH further?
    Not likely. If you heat a blade too much, you'll ruin the previous hardening, if any. Also, the sharpened edge will be pretty much prone to chipping during the quenching.
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