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Thread: Best Production Katanas out there?

  1. #51
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    OK, but what is/are "modoki"?
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrique Ruano View Post
    Sorry if you do not like them, but all tengu katana are based on pieces historical and made with Japanese pieces, the koshirae is great, very pretty and not bored as those of the marks that you said (Cold Steel, Hanwei, wkc, imperial forge, Huanuo-Fred Chen, Thait Suki Nihonto ....etc) i have some of them but are always the same black saya and sageo are very bad always, so terrible.

    katana´s tengu are elaborated one to one, and hand to hand, they are not made industrially.

    in my opinion are the most beautiful modoki and best modoki that we can buy out of japon, and I have many of the others marks taht you say (hanwei, wkc, imperial ) but koshirae is very very bored and bad
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokona_Modoki

    Like Timo said... there's a huge difference between "hand-made" and "well-made."

    An ugly woman wearing sexy lingerie and expensive clothes and jewelery is still an ugly woman. I'm not saying Tengu swords are like ugly women... but if they were as pretty and great as you say, we should see some close-ups of the blade itself. But even a complete beginner like me can already see... from these "distant" and "vague" pictures... that the "lines" of Tengu swords are strange and very awkward. And Remy is right... the tsuka shapes are ugly. The tsukamaki is really poorly done too.

    Not only that... the fittings are mass-produced ones that a lot of Japanese iaito makers use... and like Timo said, some are available for cheap from places like Namikawa and others directly from the makers, http://www.jidai.jp/tsuba_kanagu.asp

    I've never heard of WKC or Imperial... but I have to totally disagree that Hanwei koshirae are boring. I think many other people would disagree too.

    Has anyone else ever heard of Tengu besides Enrique?

    A friend of mine told me that SwordStore dot com does much the same thing in terms of fittings... and many/most of their fittings can also be found on other Japanese iaito too. But what makes SwordStore respected is not just the fittings but the impeccable fit and finish of their products. In my opinion, overall quality of the product matters a whole lot more than where the individual fittings are made... being made in Japan doesn't give it magical powers or automatically mean it's great.... and I think it's sad how that seems to be the big selling point/catch-phrase ("made in Japan!!!") Tengu is pushing. Just my 0.02 cents...
    Last edited by Benjamin P.; 01-18-2008 at 08:00 AM.
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enrique Ruano View Post
    it is just an opinion, your opinion, my opinion its only that, i only wanted show other modokis to you

    that is a forum: opinions
    Yes but not all opinions are necessarily equal. The aesthetics of these swords may be a matter of taste, but the quality of the workmanship is perfectly objective enough for debate.

    If I say the moon is made of rock because the astronauts and scientists have determined this through taking samples, and you can't really come along and say "Well you haven't been there, have you? So my opinion that it's made of Venezualan Beaver cheese is equally valid."

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin P. View Post
    An ugly woman wearing sexy lingerie and expensive clothes and jewelery is still an ugly woman. I'm not saying Tengu swords are like ugly women... but if they were as pretty and great as you say, we should see some close-ups of the blade itself.
    I don't mean to nit pick - I agree with what your point 100% - but although this is a heavily male forum perhaps a more universal analogy might be appropriate...

    Like that old English proverb: You can't polish a turd.
    Dear Jon,

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  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Freeman View Post
    Yes but not all opinions are necessarily equal. The aesthetics of these swords may be a matter of taste, but the quality of the workmanship is perfectly objective enough for debate.

    If I say the moon is made of rock because the astronauts and scientists have determined this through taking samples, and you can't really come along and say "Well you haven't been there, have you? So my opinion that it's made of Venezualan Beaver cheese is equally valid."



    I don't mean to nit pick - I agree with what your point 100% - but although this is a heavily male forum perhaps a more universal analogy might be appropriate...

    Like that old English proverb: You can't polish a turd.

    Actually, you can.

    http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm

    But I still wouldn't buy that sword.


  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M D. View Post
    Actually, you can.

    http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm

    But I still wouldn't buy that sword.

    Damn you Jason, now I am tempted to get one to counter the old argument

    "Here, see... you can, you just need to be very patient"
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason M D. View Post
    Actually, you can.

    http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Copro...e_Dinosaur.htm

    But I still wouldn't buy that sword.

    HAHA

    Nice one.

    Strange that they're all from Utah, is this true for all the world's deposits of dinosaur dung? One wonders what that says about what these prehistoric beasts thought of the place...
    Dear Jon,

    Please learn to parry.

    Love,

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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Freeman View Post
    HAHA

    Nice one.

    Strange that they're all from Utah, is this true for all the world's deposits of dinosaur dung? One wonders what that says about what these prehistoric beasts thought of the place...
    Well, from what I hear there's a lot in China too

  8. #58
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    lol, you guys are goofs.

  9. #59
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    The lost English craft of turd polishing

    Its a dying art - no interest in it these days ,

    and the moneys crap anyway

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



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  10. #60
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    *AHEM*

    now that was a good laugh and all but let's get back on track shall we? Benjamin mentioned WKC..

    Enrique, look at the $2000 Tengu sword I linked above, then look at this $2000 WKC katana:
    http://www.wkc-sports.com/Blackheartofdragond.html

    do you honestly think that the Tengu is superior? if so, in what way? and I still want to know what "modoki" is.

    EDIT: was that a hybrid polished turd or were fingerstones used?
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  11. #61
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    Bahahah!!! these turds are polished with buffing diamond disk!
    stones have no risk of losing their temper so machine tools are perfectly fine

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy B View Post
    Bahahah!!! these turds are polished with buffing diamond disk!
    stones have no risk of losing their temper so machine tools are perfectly fine
    Really? I think I see traces of "activity" in those pics..
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  13. #63
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    "digestion activity" mayhaps!

    so anyways we still have no clue what modoki means, my guess would be that it means "toy swords" :P

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy B View Post
    so anyways we still have no clue what modoki means, my guess would be that it means "toy swords" :P
    I wouldn't go that far, the blades could be just fine (no pics of the blade so we don't know).. let's keep in mind that this is an open forum, we don't want accusations of slander.

    One thing we *CAN* agree upon, though, is that these are not "Best Production Katanas out there" and leave it at that.
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  15. #65
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    that isnt activity ...

    Its sweetcorn

    enough , enough

    I actually liked the look of one or two of the blades - everything else looked pretty bad but I would give one of the blades an outing - this one http://www.houseoftengu.com/kanshaku.htm

    but then i read this , its a nice way of saying its through tempered/hardened without admitting it :

    The differential tempering is natural, without makeup

    In plain speak they mean the thinner edge cools faster than the thicker spine - talk about stretching a point - sheesh??

    strange to say the least


    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 01-20-2008 at 05:13 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  16. #66
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    Two Cents

    Hi Guys,

    I have been following this thread for awhile now and decided I just couldn't take it anymore. Timo, I'm with you!!! What the Heck!! is being referenced as Midoki??? And how does it apply to swords in general?? Mr. Ruano seems to have carefully evaded any answering to enlighten us. Other than a reference to some cartoon creature or use of a katana in a non-lethal strike I can find nothing. Now for my two cents worth. Over the past eight years since starting SOL I have sold a great many lines of production blades to include Thatsukai, Furuyama, Last Legend, Paul Chen (both past and current), MAS, Dynasty Forge, and Citadel. Some lines I haven't even bothered with to include dealing directly with Huano Forge which produces a number of the "Lines" mentioned. Other than those that I currently offer I have ignored or dropped them as offered lines for what I feel are good reason. Even those that I currently offer are not perfect but then again they aren't being sold for 6000.00 or more. Sometimes a small correction may be required and if I can't correct the problem then it goes back to the distributor (which is almost never). But for those that have come to know me know that only the best possible go out the door. I don't even bother looking for other lines anymore as I have settled on the fact that the three lines, and what I offer as customized of those lines, fill the requirements and needs of the majority IMHO. Anyway if anyone needs or wants any further clarification please don't hesitate.

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  17. #67
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    translation at last

    .."Modoki" is a word for shinken made outside Japan (I presume that's pretty close to "mogito") that some Spanish people appear to use..
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  18. #68
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    Hmmm!!

    Guess you can still teach an old dog new tricks!!

    Saru mo ki kara ochiru - even monkeys fall from trees!!
    Last edited by mscrampton; 01-20-2008 at 01:05 PM.
    'Shisei"
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  19. #69
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    Enlightenment at last!

    So that's what modoki is...

    Also, I have to say that these Tengu blades are anything but impressive.

    http://www.houseoftengu.com/kanshaku.htm
    http://www.houseoftengu.com/ryoshi.htm

    ...some of the ugliest itomaki jobs I've seen. I hate to be harsh, but it's true. Look at the hada, too! Do an ebay search on "damascus katana" or "samurai katana sword can chop iron" and there you go.

    edit: Also, I just read this - "The elegant contrast of colors between the ito and the saya, as well as the exquisiteness of the parts, make this a katana unlike any other on the market, as the tsuba, lightly carved in rikko style, is covered in first quality yellow/golden Japanese cotton, etc." I can't help but think that the errors in vocabulary (tsuba = tsuka, I imagine) are a sign of lack of study...something a specialty sword sales company can't really afford to do.

    In my opinion, taking both qc and customer service into consideration, citadel is pretty high. There are a few other makers who would rank up there, too, if they would get the customer relations straightened out, but citadel seems to be a safe choice.
    Last edited by Tsugio Kawakami; 01-20-2008 at 01:48 PM.
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  20. #70
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    Did you guys scare away another one?

    Someone has thrown a flag on this play. I'm not sure what the real issue is, aside from you guys being you guys. Rather than put you all on report, I figure I'll leave this here.



    As typical. Rude, crude and at times socially unacceptable. Seems like business as usual to me.

    I say the best production katana is my fourth generation Hanwei PK.

    What does best mean to you?

    That pompous jerk

    Glen

  21. #71
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    Confused ? - you will be !

    LOL

    way to go Glen , actually my KC shingen is the best and we all knows it

    Ok folks potty mouth times over - back to swords pro's v cons .

    never mind the best production blade - how about the easiest to dicipher abbreviation :

    Theres plenty of decent user kats out there , so many abbreviated names it looks like a world boxing sanctioning body expo

    PC, KC , DF, CS etc , then we have PK ,PPK, P pro K , PK XL, PPK XL
    KC 26II , KC 29II , KC 25A , KC 27A - not to mention all the 10XX steels plus 5160, 9260 , L6 etc ,

    did some one say da vinci code ?

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    .."Modoki" is a word for shinken made outside Japan (I presume that's pretty close to "mogito") that some Spanish people appear to use..
    As far as I know, "modoki" is related mogito in that that it's the same kanji as the "gi" part of mogito. It means something like "imitation". Unfortunately, that's not how "modoki" by itself gets used. Modoki is a suffix and doesn't stand alone. It's equivalent to the prefix "pseudo-" Ironically (or perhaps not), when the kanji is used as a stand alone word, it's usually read as "maga(i)", where the meaning changes nuance to "sham" or "fake".

    I'd avoid adopting this term into your personal lexicon.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kent Enfield View Post
    I'd avoid adopting this term into your personal lexicon.
    I will, thanks for the heads-up!
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  24. #74
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    Dear Sirs, good day.

    First of all, I'm sorry for my English, since I am not a native speaker (or writer!)

    I'm Rufino Acosta as you can see in my registered name, and I own The Time Seller,Tengu, and some other brands WMA and re-enactment related. We're from Spain, replying to who may wonder.

    It is a little hard for us to read comments like those from people I admire but enough with the feelings now.

    Tengu is a custom based company, we do not wanted to develop catalogue models until our customers started to request model from a catalogue. The pieces you can see in houseoftengu.com are from 3 years on the past, the fittings we use at this moment are not exactly the same and the blades are radically different, specially the folded ones. At the moment we hold the custom market in spain and part of europe, and we're very proud about, and especially about the customers feedback in general. Since we offer the possibility to a customer to make his dreamed katana deciding most of the details. We put a katana in the hand of many Iaido, Kenjutsu, and kendo instructors in our country.

    About the Ryöshi model it's a this moment a discontinued item, we do not serve it anymore, that was one of our first models. We're developing 5 new models based on museum pieces and with a very Japanese flavor. I attach our last creation, which is at this moment a top selling item.

    Yes, we use imported japanese pieces, and mass produced fittings, but we do not lie about, we can openly say we have a very good relationship with the namikawa family, and they are very happy to work with us. Does that means we're making something terrible? I think not. The main difference between our Tengu and another katana is the fittings and the koshirae. We per example can assure our blades doesn't have nothing to envy to a PC or a WKC and on the contrary, we can tell our koshirae has a significant difference between those brands, and I'm not talking about the taste of the colours, because that's a matter of taste, I'm talking about the finishes. We import the wood from japan, the ito, fuchigashira, menuki and even the same, even when we could take if from mexico instead, but not, we don't want to. We could pay chinese workers to make his 'fabulous' koshirae for a cheap katana with authentic chinese cotton ito, but we don't wanted to. We import the fittings, I pickup the pieces and go with them to the Kokshirae-shi's house which is less than a mile from here, and he makes his work in his workshop. That's how this works.

    I would like to ask you if you ever seen a Tengu katana to talk about his quality, finishes and/or koshirae. We'll update the houseoftengu webpage with our new pictures, and maybe you'll notice a difference.

    Mr. Ruano it's a good friend from Toledo, and is one of the good and best customers from Tengu.

    About the modoki, it's a word used here (in spain at least), to designate non-japanese katanas in just a word.

    If you have any other question, just let me know, but I'll need a few time to reply since we cannot see the forums everyday due to our shop.

    Thanks, and have a nice day.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Best Regards. Rufino Acosta
    o)==={:::::::::::::::::::::::::>

  25. #75
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    Oops... I forgot one attachment
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    Best Regards. Rufino Acosta
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