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Thread: Best Production Katanas out there?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat Rous View Post
    Things are looking up for Production swords this year.
    ..and it's still January!
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    ..and it's still January!
    I may even break my promise and go for one more production. Maybe. If those pictures reflect the truth.

    The only issue I fear is edge-retention. I got burnt badly last year and had to fight for 9 months to get the money back. Edges that couldn't handle tameshigiri on proper Japanese Wara even though they were advertised as suitable for it.

    It's very hard to have faith in a blind purchase after that - at least with custom, you know they know their steel.
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  3. #103
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    If you take a closer look through this link: http://web.thetimeseller.com/cat_Katana_custom.pdf

    ...it shows close-up pictures of the kissaki and bo-hi termination on these swords. I might just be a beginner, but even I can tell they don't look very good. Same goes for pics of saya customizations. Looks really amateurish.... I guess what I'm saying is that the pictures of this company's products so far have been very inconsistent. Some blades look like Dynasty's stone-polished line... others look like Furuyama rejects. Some mounts look like a custom iaito from Tozando... others look totally unprofessional. Did they switch forges? Get new mounters? How can I know which are old pictures and which are new pictures?

    And I still don't get what's so special about the fact that they're using cheap, mass-produced iaito fittings from Japan, and why that's enough to change everyone's minds about this company. Basically, they've put up just about every fitting (well, almost) that you can get through Tozando or Jidai.jp, etc. as an option.

    But anyone can purchase those fittings on their own too, get a DF blade at a bargain, and send it out to be mounted... and for probably equal or better looking results... probably for around similar price, if you consider import/custom fees from Spain.... Or you could skip all that and just get one with guaranteed good results from SwordStore.com ....

    I'm not qualified enough at all to say that Tengu swords are not any good... just expressing my limited opinion that I'm still skeptical due to some inconsistencies... If someone would enlighten me about what I'm missing, it'd be great. I'm always open to learning more....

    The Konron forge looks interesting... I'm loving the irregular hamons. I think (I hope) having unique patterns will become the "new thing" for production companies in 2008.... but the shipping to U.S. is $250 or something like that.... I'll wait for a review here on SFI or an offer on the classifieds before I consider buying one....
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  4. #104
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    Benjamin, remember that the import-fees you're talking about apply to us Europeans when we buy a Dynasty.. and who's there to do customization in Europe? This is Sword Forum International, remember?

    And the fact that they use quality-fittings instead of casting crap like most chinatana-companies do is a pretty damn good thing. At least we know they're durable and reasonably well-made. Oh, and those fittings are not all cheap; for example high-end Namikawa-menuki alone cost $85.
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  5. #105
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    Thanks, Timo. What about the blades though? I mean... look at the kissaki on some of those on the pdf link you posted earlier.

    I guess what I'm saying is it would take a lot more than iaito fittings for me to believe that something is a good sword... And what do we really know about iaito fittings except the fact that they are from Japan? I'm sure they're great, but what makes them necessarily better than, for example, Paul Chen fittings except the stereotype/bias that Japanese goods are generally made better than Chinese stuff?

    Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Tengu are good or bad. I don't know nearly enough about swords to make that kind of distinction.... All I'm saying is that I am skeptical given the inconsistent pictures, and that it's going to take more than iaito fittings to make me believe that they are good swords, you know?

    To borrow the words of someone who actually knows enough to say such things... Karl J., I think, says that a lot of people try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with swords....

    And just because they are using good fittings doesn't mean that they were used well doesn't it? I'm just a little weary because of all the threads about tsuka with cracks and breaks. And posts by experts like Keith Larman have taught me that there is so much more to a good sword and good mount than meets the eye... or what can be seen from a few stock photos...

    I'm sorry if anything I wrote sounds argumentative... because that's not what I mean at all. I have no idea how Tengu are. Maybe they really are the "bee's knees" (as Michael Wilson says... LOL!!)....

    I guess I'm just really surprised how quickly everyone's opinions changed....
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin P. View Post
    Thanks, Timo. What about the blades though? I mean... look at the kissaki on some of those on the pdf link you posted earlier.

    I guess what I'm saying is it would take a lot more than iaito fittings for me to believe that something is a good sword... And what do we really know about iaito fittings except the fact that they are from Japan? I'm sure they're great, but what makes them necessarily better than, for example, Paul Chen fittings except the stereotype/bias that Japanese goods are generally made better than Chinese stuff?

    And just because they are using good fittings doesn't mean that they were used well doesn't it? I'm just a little weary because of all the threads about tsuka with cracks and breaks. And posts by experts like Keith Larman have taught me that there is so much more to a good sword and good mount than meets the eye... or what can be seen from a few stock photos...
    Yeah, I'm hoping those pics are as outdated as the website.

    Indeed, good fittings alone don't make a good sword. I think that what mostly changed people's opinions was the pictures of the new and nice looking swords, not the choice of fittings available. Me, I only look at the blades these days, and the ones I posted pictures of look quite promising (I actually contacted them about the possibility of getting one in shirasaya).

    I fully agree that first-hand experience of a seasoned forumite would be in order. I volunteer if I don't have to pay for it (I might even return the sword after reviewing it)!!
    (provided that I can be appointed by a qualified committee as "seasoned"..)
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  7. #107
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    I agree with benjamin, the HI and the Kissaki are both quite ugly and slopy. If you are going to make a promotional PDF to sell your sword, then i think you would use pictures of what you think is the top of the top that your company is able to produce (as a 2d graphist that make these kind of publication, thats how i think anyways) SO... puting these ugly boshi pictures really worry me as to the final quality of their blades.

    This file is not outdated. The PDF was created on 07-05-30 with adobe indesign CS3 ( that is a fairly recent release ) and it got last modified on the same day.

    Which lead me to beleive the pictures of Enrique' sword that has a tight hada and fine geometry, is either a tengu of extremely unusual quality for the company or that they are not from the same place.
    This is my personnal opinion, im unrelated to any company or SFI.

  8. #108
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    If Bang for buck does not matter...... I got a sword you should see

    Last edited by Ricky Arias; 01-25-2008 at 08:39 PM. Reason: error

  9. #109
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    whats in a name ??

    I dont recall saying tengu are the bee's Knees ???

    Shipping from the UK or EU to the USA will be no more than $100 max - ive sent a katana , wakizashi , plus tsuba and other fittings all in the same package and the total cost was $104 USD .

    Yeah I like the Konron forge hamons looks like someone took a bit of time with them instead of getting the good old notare stencil out

    they look about as good quality wise as mid range chen blades - shinto , musashi etc - what I do like is the lack of pretence with naming the swords , I am tired of production swords using diamyo and swordsmiths names to shift inferior product .

    I doubt Oda Nobunaga or Takeda Shingen would have used some of these $60 swords bearing their names to clean mud from their riding boots
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  10. #110
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    Wink

    (provided that I can be appointed by a qualified committee as "seasoned"..)
    Once said commitee was selected and gathered together; I would think seasoning would depend on how it was chosen to cook you. Indeed, seasoned at all if served raw. That might simply call for condiment such as wasabi or tamari. Taste and preparation methods being so subjective, it may be a matter of leaving it to drawing straws or game of chance in order to select the one chef to get the job done. For instance, I know I would use entirely different seasonings if braising rather than broiling. Cold or hot smoking might call for entirely different herbs and spices.

    Cheers

    Hotspur; are we to prepare the whole beast, or just a specific cut?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    I dont recall saying tengu are the bee's Knees ???
    Oops... sorry, I just remember you using the phrase "bee's knees" to describe something else and thought it was hilarious.
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin P. View Post
    Oops... sorry, I just remember you using the phrase "bee's knees" to describe something else and thought it was hilarious.
    What? You don't have that expression over your side of the pond?
    Dear Jon,

    Please learn to parry.

    Love,

    Your Innards x

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  13. #113
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    These don't look too shabby either:
    http://www.nihontoantiques.com/iaito...ale%20page.htm
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Freeman View Post
    What? You don't have that expression over your side of the pond?
    Yes we do. Archaic though, early 20th century. One I am looking for the origin of is

    "oh dear, bread and beer" (Cape Cod) or "oh dear, pretzels and beer" (Waltham/ Boston)

    I am trying to determine wheteher these are strictly New England, or whether there was a British or continental root. I have one other vauge reference to Chicago.

    Thanks in advance.

    Hotspur; sorry for the sidebars

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen C. View Post
    Hotspur; sorry for the sidebars
    Have you had a drink or two, maybe..?
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  16. #116
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    Hello everyone again, I'm sorry for the late reply.

    For the moment I'm on a trip, so maybe I'll not replying everything today.

    About the catalogue, as you can see is 2007 one and it was made on the end of the 2006, it is at this moment outdated, and the pictures of the blades specially are from 2006, we're working on the 2008 catalogue with everything updated, specially the blades. Those we used were, in fact, from another forgery not good as the one we use today. The kissaki polishing and the boshi were, I agree, horrible. When I have a minute I'll post some pictures of the new blades.

    The Catalogue will be updated in a very few weeks, maybe 4 or 6 max, since it is our main selling method, as commented in other posts, the custom katana. Some of the techniques, finishes, tsukamakis etc, are not available, or, changed radically. Per example wakizashi blades will be available, tanto as well.

    Timo asked for shirasaya, I make the comment just because maybe some are wondering also. We’re thinking on the possibility to sell our blades in Shirasaya, but, we need to se if that will be worth and if it is enough market for that, anyway I thank Timo for the question and interest.

    That boshi Issue appointed in a earlier post, were from a blade we sent to the trash, as we need to make much tests, sometimes blades has failures. Also, that pictures were posted by Roman, which normally shows to the customers images before asking me about the permission to show them, he is too much enthusiast, and sometimes shows pictures not to be shown by non-Tengu Staff You may know what I mean.

    We’re planning on a tachi also, but that’s another history, for the moment we have the pieces and it’s on design, test and fail phase, it can pass a good bunch of months before the project sees the light.

    I do not like to appear like I’m making excuses about this, and everything you, gentle forumites, appointed, but Tengu is a young company yet, we have lots of work, little help, and too much to do, but we’re on the move!

    Just for your info, our actual production cue is like three months at this moment, that means if you order a custom katana we’ll need something like twelve weeks because of the actual work charge.

    About the comment from Benjamin, maybe people changed his mind about tengu because, they're getting reasonable explanations and, good pics, but that's just a suggestion.

    Thanks everyone for your attention, and I repeat I’m here for everything I can help.
    Best Regards. Rufino Acosta
    o)==={:::::::::::::::::::::::::>

  17. #117
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    M Acosta, trying to improve is a nice thing. Better than trying to deceive with edited pictures.
    Show us some recent boshi pictures soon

  18. #118
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    keeping it in context

    It depends what context you want to look at the tengu swords -
    when they were touted as " as close to nihonto as it gets " or when people were insisting these were 'custom' swords -

    well I think our comments and critique were quite justified IMO.

    but if in the beginning they had been billed as ' mid to high end production swords ' well we wouldnt have been so judgemental or indeed so focused on bohi termination and boshi patterning because they would have been productionswords IMO we would have been praising them for using japanese made kodogu.

    if somethings going to be trumpeted as 'close to nihonto as it gets' it better hope it is indeed the bee's knees , if it isnt it'll catch hell on these boards


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  19. #119
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    I vote that further discussion of Tengu, whether custom or production, would be moved to a thread of it's own.
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  20. #120
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    second that

    It would be a better idea Timo, as its unfair to devote this thread to one make IMO, and they deserve a fair shake as it where - to
    respond to questions put to them only .


    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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