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Thread: Glues that wreck metal

  1. #1
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    Glues that wreck metal

    I remember a few years back that there was a realization that certain glues were causing severe stains and damage to blades. Does anyone recall which they were, or what exactly it was decided was in the glues that was causing this?
    I like swords.

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  2. #2
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    The outgassing from super glue that hasnt fully cured at least 24 hrs can cause surface marring.
    Or so Ive found. Others may know of others. But thats the only one Ive noticed.
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

    Frederick the Great 1747

  3. #3
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    When I worked in a woodshop I noticed that tightbond II reacted to the metal bar clamps with the typical blue black discoloration but it was pretty minor. As the only wood gluing I do on a hilt is nowhere near the blade I've never worried.
    Thomas Powers
    CoFounder of the Intergalactic Union of Bladesmiths
    "when you forge upon a star"---you better have your union card handy!

  4. #4
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    I used barge cement to glue 2 large chunks of amber on a video game sword, directly to the steel. It took some serious shock, as long as it did not take a direct hit. Didn't discolor the metal.
    Lots of adhesives used in aircraft that does not cause corrosion. Very strong.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Jerry Bennett; 10-27-2011 at 03:04 PM.
    Barnyard bladesmith, burnt in the front, and frozen in the rear. Comic book metallurgist, too dumb to know that I can't do that.
    "I don't believe in the no-win scenario".. Captain Kirk.

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    It's good to be gifted, but best of all to be determined. - Me

    "The precise balance of brains and balls, will ALWAYS trump those who have too much of one, and not enough of the other". - me

  5. #5
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    Very sorry for the double post, but i dug up this one. i tested it thoroughly. Chopped tree limbs. A chunk of amber, with barge cement, right on the polished steel. http://www.swordforum.com/forums/att...1&d=1181608810
    Barnyard bladesmith, burnt in the front, and frozen in the rear. Comic book metallurgist, too dumb to know that I can't do that.
    "I don't believe in the no-win scenario".. Captain Kirk.

    It's good to be skilled, but better to be talented.
    It's good to be talented, but better to be gifted.
    It's good to be gifted, but best of all to be determined. - Me

    "The precise balance of brains and balls, will ALWAYS trump those who have too much of one, and not enough of the other". - me

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Powers View Post
    When I worked in a woodshop I noticed that tightbond II reacted to the metal bar clamps with the typical blue black discoloration but it was pretty minor. As the only wood gluing I do on a hilt is nowhere near the blade I've never worried.
    There we go. Any guesses as to what causes that when Titebond doesn't?
    I like swords.

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    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  7. #7
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    One type of glue i wanted to try on steel, is the rear view mirror glue, from the automotive world. Not sure how it would work yet. haven't had time. seems feasible.
    Barnyard bladesmith, burnt in the front, and frozen in the rear. Comic book metallurgist, too dumb to know that I can't do that.
    "I don't believe in the no-win scenario".. Captain Kirk.

    It's good to be skilled, but better to be talented.
    It's good to be talented, but better to be gifted.
    It's good to be gifted, but best of all to be determined. - Me

    "The precise balance of brains and balls, will ALWAYS trump those who have too much of one, and not enough of the other". - me

  8. #8
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    I am still trying to find the formula for the glue used in middle eastern swords. It sets up like a cement and is incredibly strong

  9. #9
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    poop. I'm sure it's an ingredient. It was an ingredient in a lot of the great art pieces we know today.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
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    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    I am still trying to find the formula for the glue used in middle eastern swords. It sets up like a cement and is incredibly strong
    Are you refering to the stuff they put hilts on with?
    Or something else?
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

    Frederick the Great 1747

  11. #11
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    the stuff they put the hilts on with. none of my swords from the middle east are pinned, just that 'glue'

  12. #12
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    I aquired a watered blade that had a smashed hilt.
    Banged and bent beyond my talents to repair.
    Bits were missing etc. The blade was what I wanted.
    Short, obviously been used in battle from the dings
    and such as well as haveing been reground on the point.
    I used a torch to warm the hilt enuf to remove teh tang.
    Very resiny and fragrant smelling. The material came out
    very black and grainy. Hard as a rock. Ill find a recipe
    for you. I have it somewhere in my stacks of stuff.
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

    Frederick the Great 1747

  13. #13
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    pine pitch i can get easy. good on the removal too, I have an antique hilt I bought and is full of the stuff and I cant get it out with hand tools, ill try a torch when I get home

  14. #14
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    5 parts resin tree (pine works) pitch, 1 part charcoal ground to powder, 1 part vegetarian animal feces (needs to be herbivore like rabit or deer, carnivore/omnivore poop doesn't work) dried and ground to powder.

    Heat pitch in metal pan over low heat (slowly increase heat until it melts... if it burns it got to hot and you need to start over with a new batch). Once melted add dry ingredients... stir to even consistency and apply while hot.

    Yea, don't ask me why I know this.
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

  15. #15
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    What I want to know is why Jeff Ellis know there was fecal matter in it? I wounder of plain old rabbit food, the dry pellets would work. I do not live where there are a lot of farms any more, though I have a friend with horses

  16. #16
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    David, pick up some frankincense while you are over there. I use that a lot for cutlers resin. Very strong. While you're at it, pick up a road apple from a burro or camel or something, The cellulose in the turds are a great binder.

    EDIT: Are you allowed to say turd on sword forum?
    EDIT AGAIN: I forgot to mention, Christopher's recipe is good, but I found instead of heat, use alcohol to dissolve the pitch. I use everclear. It will take a bit longer to set up and harden, but I find that the pitch is slightly stronger when it re crystallizes. Plus you can put the extra in a sealed container to have on hand...
    Last edited by Jerry Bennett; 11-04-2011 at 08:43 AM.
    Barnyard bladesmith, burnt in the front, and frozen in the rear. Comic book metallurgist, too dumb to know that I can't do that.
    "I don't believe in the no-win scenario".. Captain Kirk.

    It's good to be skilled, but better to be talented.
    It's good to be talented, but better to be gifted.
    It's good to be gifted, but best of all to be determined. - Me

    "The precise balance of brains and balls, will ALWAYS trump those who have too much of one, and not enough of the other". - me

  17. #17
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    Yep, thats the basic recipe. Some of the directions Ive gotten
    are to use a double boiler so it isnt exposed to direct heat.
    It will burn if its to hot and then doesnt work as well.
    Id like to see the peoples face if you brought some camel or
    donkey dung thru customs. LOL, thatd be a hoot fershure. =)
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

    Frederick the Great 1747

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    pine pitch i can get easy. good on the removal too, I have an antique hilt I bought and is full of the stuff and I cant get it out with hand tools, ill try a torch when I get home
    I find what works very well indeed is about 2 parts pine pitch, 1 part beeswax, and assuming you're making about a pound of the stuff (what you don't use now you can let set and use later) about a teaspoon of borax, plus you can add wood dust and metal dust for colouring. The stuff sets incredibly strong, but also is very shock absorbant. It also "blends in" well to any blued steel.
    Look up recipes for "Cutler's Resin."

  19. #19
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    the reason you add some kind of digested or otherwise cellulose or wood pulp is to give the glue structural strength...
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

  20. #20
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    I have accidentally removed blades from old silverware by boiling in water. Might be a good way to disassemble or assemble as the temperature will stay constant and not too hot to burn.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis Smith View Post
    What I want to know is why Jeff Ellis know there was fecal matter in it?
    You obviously didn't read the rest of my reasoning

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Ellis
    It was an ingredient in a lot of the great art pieces we know today.
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Bennett View Post
    I use everclear.
    One for you, and one for the pitch? Two for you and one more for the pitch?
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
    ______________________________

    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  23. #23
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    I've never had trouble with Epoxy.
    Superglue does outgas some major bluing.
    Titebond 3 is the worst. It's super acidic. pH is like 2.3 or something. Discolours blade steel very badly. Can even discolour stainless over time. I use TB3 on grip cores coz I want them as strong as possible (and will file off the overflow inside the slot), but never on scabbards.

    Titebond 2 is less acidic, and Titebond original (Red) is the least acidic of the three. The Titebond website displays the actual pH values in it's specs.
    When making scabbards Titebond Red is deffinitely the one to use.
    Last edited by Brendan O.; 12-10-2011 at 05:54 PM.

  24. #24
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    What about plain Elmer's White?
    I like swords.

    ______________________________
    SCHOLA GLADIATORIA
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    If you want to climb a mountain, begin at the top.

    "Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." - Don Nelson

    learn the way to preserve rather than destroy.
    avoid rather than check, check rather than hurt, hurt rather than maim, maim rather than kill.
    for all life is precious, not one can be replaced.

  25. #25
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    The old style carpenters used Hide glue. Seems to work on fine wood furniture.
    Elmers makes a good furniture glue that has proven effective.
    "Do not suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty by any pretences of politeness, delicacy or decency.
    These, as they are often used, are but three names for hypocrisy, chicanery, and cowardice.” John Adams, 1789

    "Everything the enemy least expects will succeed the best."

    Frederick the Great 1747

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