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Thread: Thaitsuki "nihonto" hamon polishing away...

  1. #1
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    Thaitsuki "nihonto" hamon polishing away...

    I am debating posting this here or into the blacksmith section but since i am far from a blacksmith and i want to talk about something that i didnt make, i decided to post it here.

    As a unsatifyed proprietor of a Thaitsuki "nihonto" sword, i decided to do some work on it since the finish of the polish was far from pretty (deep scratches at a 60 degree angle on the Ji, lemon hamon) and realised that ive been "had" ...long ago, so i decided that i was going to instruct myself in the art of unprofessional hybrid polish, since the finish wasnt pretty to begin with and im not using this to cut, i didnt care at all if i trashed it or not. I always found the hamon on that blade to be very weak and cheesy looking at best, far from what you see on their website... so i wasnt too surprised to notice that the hamon disapeared after a while of polishing with my japanese whetstone.

    Now the reason of this topic and the actual question i wanted to ask is: could it be possible to reclay that blade and to give it a real hamon without too much problems or would this warp the blade, weaken the steel and require more work than it would be worth?
    I think that it is simply tempered thru right now without dif. hardening whatsoever.

    Thanks for any thought on that you might provide.

  2. #2
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    Lots of questions need answering there.

    Yes you could reclay the blade and re-harden it and all that, but you would need to know the steel type and be pretty good at water quenching and all that already. I would expect some warpage as well, and you'd be buying yourslef a whole new polish job as well.

    More trouble than it is worth unless you are looking for an educational experience and are willing to toss the blade if it fails (a very high percentage of blades quenched in the traditional manner, fail in the quench, often with a nasty "tink" sound as they crack.

    I'd tune it up as best you can without heat and take the whole experience for what it is worth.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis sed Nomini Tuo da Gloriam
    "Not to us Lord, Not to us, but to Thy Name be the Glory"

    Adsum, Domine: Totus ingenibus meis ad pedes tuos proponeo.
    Duce et regere servum tui, Domine, ab omnibus temptationem, ita ut honor purus et donum meum incontaminatus sit.
    "Here am I, Lord: All my talents at Thy feet I lay. Guide and guard Thy servant, Lord, from all temptation, that honor may be spotless and my gift unstained."
    - Katherine Kurtz "Healer's Song"

  3. #3
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    Interesting Andrew... i never knew that blade quenching in traditional manner failed often. But then again, they do not talk much about the new smiths... only the big names get exposure so, what you say make perfect sense.

    Ya i think i will endure the blade as is after im done polishing it as best i can, beside i do not have the forge to do it but i was curious if that would have been a possibility.

    thanks

  4. #4
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    Did you take before Pics? I would like to see a comparison of before and after pics.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Practice slow - Learn fast
    Practice fast - Learn slow

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy B View Post
    Interesting Andrew... i never knew that blade quenching in traditional manner failed often. But then again, they do not talk much about the new smiths... only the big names get exposure so, what you say make perfect sense.

    Ya i think i will endure the blade as is after im done polishing it as best i can, beside i do not have the forge to do it but i was curious if that would have been a possibility.

    thanks
    Water quenching is incredibly stressful on the steel (or so I have read and been told). If the steel is not properly stress relieved prior to quenching, the stresses pre-existing in the blade will be accentuated in the quench. Even with proper stress relief, the fact that the thinnest portion of the blade is cooled so fast compared to the spine, creates a whole lot of other stresses. If you read threads about beginning tanto makers, you'll see that they crack an awful lot of blades while they learn , and many continue to crack blades down the road. The longer the blade, the greater the chance of cracking (just more real estate involved). I somewhere (might be Yoshihara) heard a figure of about 25% failure rate in Japanese style blade quenching. Some of those are saveable, some aren't. Some break in a spot that allows them to be turned into tanto or wakizashi, some don't
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis sed Nomini Tuo da Gloriam
    "Not to us Lord, Not to us, but to Thy Name be the Glory"

    Adsum, Domine: Totus ingenibus meis ad pedes tuos proponeo.
    Duce et regere servum tui, Domine, ab omnibus temptationem, ita ut honor purus et donum meum incontaminatus sit.
    "Here am I, Lord: All my talents at Thy feet I lay. Guide and guard Thy servant, Lord, from all temptation, that honor may be spotless and my gift unstained."
    - Katherine Kurtz "Healer's Song"

  6. #6
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    Is your hamon real. If it is you can try and re-etch a new hamon with some vinegar. It's pretty easy. If you have a wire brushed hamon you will need to sand it down in multiple stages then chemically etch your own custom hamon. I have a cheap musashi sword that I am doing this to right now.

  7. #7
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    Thaitsuki moan

    Considering the Sivarat family who own Thaitsuki claim to have been
    making katana for 200 years - I am amazed that ive never read a satisfied review or met an owner on line who didnt feel hosed in some way -

    The KTN1 - KTN4 range is so over priced in the UK its silly - a bottom of the line KTN1 costs about £415 or about $800 USD , the
    KTN4 is around about $1200 USD - if you think of how much Bugei or Citadel sword that would get you - well their prices are way off beam for what they are .

    They should drop the nihonto tag under the trades description act
    IMO
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  8. #8
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    Word of Caution

    And I have to be careful where I tread but I briefly sold Thaitsuki and dropped them after the first delivery. We found that not only were the hamon fake but some of the blades had not even been tempered. Not a blade to cut with by any stretch of the imagination IMHO.

    As Always,

    Mike
    'Shisei"
    Sincerity must begin with attitude, then it will flow naturally into your words and deeds.

    Sensei Miura Hanshi

  9. #9
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    NO mikey, the hamon is lemon juice mark... insulting, really.

  10. #10
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    Funny, I was browsing on their website a while ago, came across some video's.

    One was a cutting video, the guy was dressed very... poorly in hakama and dogi, and cut a piece of bamboo, funniest thing ever, form was so bad.

    Then the next video was even weirder. The Bending test.

    it shows oen guy bending one of their swords presumably, and yes it bends, but i SWEAR at the end of the vidoe it loosk like it STAYED bent.
    I wasn't sure at this point what they were tryign to proove....

    That their swords bent and didn't snap so it stays bent, or that It's meant to bend but flex back.. which appears it didn't.

  11. #11
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    Flash!!

    Thought I would share this one. I just received this e-mail from Thaitsuki.

    Dear Sir/Madam,
    We are the thaitsuki nihonto who has been the manufacturer japanese sword in thailand more than 10 years.The mainly reason to supply the japanese sword with the quality and
    reasonable price to the clients via distributors.
    However we have a plan to supply our product to the mainly famouse distributors arround the world and you are the one who has the good reputation and famous in this field.We are so pround
    and appreciate to represent our product and the good business under your organization.
    Anyway You can visit our katana on http://www.thaitsukisword.com/SwordMenu.html .On this website will listed the detials and the all famouse trader and distributor who sell our products
    Finally we hope this information will be useful for you and pls accept us apology.if this message was disturb you.if you have further question.Please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Best Regs
    Thaitsuki(thailand)
    customer@thaitsukisword.com

    Mike
    'Shisei"
    Sincerity must begin with attitude, then it will flow naturally into your words and deeds.

    Sensei Miura Hanshi

  12. #12
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    Uh Mike... no matter how they sweet talk to you, they still fake hamons and lie about them.

    As for the polish of mine, i droped it in midway since well, there is no hada to bring out and there is no hamon to bring out, why would i bother polishing that up? Right now it sort of have a shiney satin finish that look hideous! :O

  13. #13
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    In One Ear and Out the other.

    This is not the first time that the factory has contacted me directly and not through their distributor in Florida. I dropped them a long time ago for good reason. I can't beleive that they will last much longer.

    Regards,

    Mike
    'Shisei"
    Sincerity must begin with attitude, then it will flow naturally into your words and deeds.

    Sensei Miura Hanshi

  14. #14
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    Well i dont see why they wouldnt last, judging from their website, theres next to no way to know that they are lying.
    Kind of impossible to take legal action when the trader is at the opposite side of the planet...

    Hopefuly this place here, SFI, might inform some ppl about unscrupulous "Traders"

  15. #15
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    so i'm guessing "fireblow" is some equivalent to soldering or welding?
    les yeich (pronounced yike)

    helden wie wir sterben doch allein,
    einsam unerreicht werden wir sein.
    - the "great" jasmin wagner

  16. #16
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    Here's some "Before" pictures... im still working on the "After" apparently ... gosh its a pain to be stubborn sometime...

    Whole blade
    I hate uneven machis...
    Boshi
    I SWEAR this is a brand new blade, out from the box.

    I will post some pictures of the "finished" new polish and hamon when im satisfyed with it... should this ever happen in this decade, i will post some pictures so that you can have a good day. its always a good day when you get to laugh alot.

  17. #17
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    your sword

    Remy mate -

    Thats the worst thaitsuki sword ive seen for poor quality - absolutely atrocious - its not even the bottom of the line model either - its the KTN 3 isnt it ?

    Ive had £100 chinatana with a nicer level of finish and had far better workmanship in the blade - to think these sell for £500 GB
    well its a shame mate that you got so poor a sword .


    my sympathies mate

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  18. #18
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    its the KTN4 = the bestest of the best from them... apparently.

    I got it from customkatana.co.uk, after insisting via email that they send me the most flawless, highest quality possible, since i have heard they, over there, had high quality control. Sorry for the neg. publicity but i am making no claim for money back since i HAD to temper with the blade to see that it is not really differently tempered as the website state... voiding my chance for any possibility to ever see my money back, i know.

    As Mike mentioned, i doubt that the blade is hardened proprely too, since i accidentaly hit the "ha" very lightly against a block of hardened steel i use as a mini anvil (and a weight for my polishing board, hence why it was close to the blade) while i was watering down the edge to clean the stone risidue and the blade automaticaly marked and made a dent. The force applied to the blow must have been equal or less to the force it would require you to lift a post-it pad.

    I just got traumatised by this whole experience, i guess, since now i want to puke everytime i hear the word "thai".
    Last edited by Remy B; 02-28-2008 at 06:13 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy B View Post
    I just got traumatised by this whole experience, i guess, since now i want to puke everytime i hear the word "thai".
    If it helps at all, pad thai is a very delicious and healthy noodle dish. I just had some the other night.

    Thanks for this thread. I will now definitely stay away from Thaitsuki or its spin-off Bushiblades.

    By the way, I took the liberty of referencing one of your pictures above to this stickied thread: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthr...874#post993874

    If you would permanently upload the picture of un-even machi, I think a lot of people would appreciate it. Thanks!
    REAL Star Wars fans HATE Star Wars (and Lucas)... but LOVE the idea.

  20. #20
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    Ive spoken to a few thait owners who have been un-happy with what they paid top dollar for - mainly shoddy habaki and faulty ito wraps , the main complaint about the blades where that they feel too thin and whippy -

    This blade here though is beyond the pale - If I bought a masahiro blade in that condition I would be irate - never mind a $1K + sword .

    I think I know which vendor is reffered to here and having dealt with them myself I am sure the owner will not let this matter go unresolved - he's just not that type of person and he prides himself on making the customer happy with their purchase .

    ( PM sent Remy )

    THanks

    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 02-28-2008 at 01:51 PM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  21. #21
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    Hey Remy... I have the ktn4 as well... truly disappointed with it... im glad to see yours has the same scratches as mine did right out of the box... i got mine from swords of the east... lol trying to get rid of it but cant seem to give the dang thing away.... I have to say i do kinda fancy the silver fittings.... hmmmmmm.
    Last edited by AaronThomas; 08-06-2008 at 07:55 PM.

  22. #22
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    Aaron, i say we duel with our thaitsuki 'nihonto' and the loser get to keep both swords!

    hey at least yours has a straight "yokote" !

  23. #23
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    HAHAHAHA no really, its ok... you can just have it!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remy B View Post
    Aaron, i say we duel with our thaitsuki 'nihonto' and the loser get to keep both swords!

    hey at least yours has a straight "yokote" !

    Lolololoo

  25. #25
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    Well, instead of ordering a folded daisho from a master-smith I should have gone to thaitsukisword
    BECAUSE:
    "Traditional tsuka cheated with black gross genuine rayskin."
    "More safty confident with 2 mekuji."


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