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Thread: Thaitsuki "nihonto" hamon polishing away...

  1. #51
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    All I see is a dirty blade, looks like the left over oxides.
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  2. #52
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    Well, duh!

  3. #53
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    Ok Remy. I have been reading this book called The Craft of the Japanese Sword. If you haven't read it I highly recommend it. It goes over all the processes in making a katana. After reading it I've come across some two explanations why your sword has no visible hamon. Now I am just going by what the book said, so if your a snobby metallurgist please be kind.
    The first explanation has to do with the carbon content of the blade. It says that if it's below .35% the steel can not be cooled rapidly enough to allow martensite, i.e. a hamon, to form. On the Thaitsuki website they do not say what kind of steel they use. They just say it's high carbon. But what do the consider high carbon? Who knows what they are using.
    The second explanation has to do with the temperature of the blade before it was quenched. If the temp was to low there is no way martensite could have formed. There could be other reasons but that's all the book talked about. You may want to ask some on At any rate they probably did clay the blade but for what ever reason there is no hamon.

  4. #54
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    Hehe, im no metallurgis snob, but i can recognise a faked hamon when i see one!
    maybe the blade got clayed and maybe it is differently hardened... just maybe. But the problem i have with this is when you sell me a sword for ~900 bucks sword that shows a hamon, it better not poof away when i polish it. That is a very very bad sign, especially when nothing on the blade could have made up for it, i will spare you the attrocious details since this thread is about the blade only, but the blade as a whole was utter deception all over.

    I understand what you say Mikey but in all honesty, the facts are there.

  5. #55
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    In search of that Hamon.

    There are a number of ways to get a Hamon back.

    The best is of course to polish it with the correct grade of finger stone. (Time consuming and lank expensive.)

    Another (the worst) way is by using vinegar or Nitric Acid. This involves a lot of experimentation if you want a clear demarcation zone but for the novice it's a minefield and can totally f... up the blade.

    The most likely to yield brilliant results in a short time is by etching CAREFULLY with 2 to 3% FerriChloride and filtered Iron Oxide (home made is best)dissolved in distilled water. (This works on cold steel, folded steel and silicone steel.)
    First homogenously sand the blade to at least 2500 grid unless it's already smooth enough.
    Now etch by using a number of short etches to make sure that you get the correct shade you want rather than one long process.
    (4 to 5, 2 minute etches will usually work for Swedish Powdered Steel but shorter for Tamahagane.)
    Use petroleum jelly to protect the back part of the blade you want to keep safe. (Difficult to do if the Hamon is completely gone.)
    This is followed by dabbing Magnetite powder dissolved in inert oil and filtered through at least two coffee filter papers on to the blade. DO NOT RUB THE BLADE WITH THE MAGNETITE YOU'LL SCRATCH IT. Lightly but copiously apply consistently and leave for an hour or so.
    Clean off extremely well.
    Finally use Serium Oxide (used to polish glass) mixed in inert oil to polish the blade if you want it REALLY smooth. (About 35000 grid.)

    You should end up with a very distinctive Hamon provided the blade was properly tempered.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey G View Post
    Ok Remy. I have been reading this book called The Craft of the Japanese Sword. If you haven't read it I highly recommend it. It goes over all the processes in making a katana. After reading it I've come across some two explanations why your sword has no visible hamon. Now I am just going by what the book said, so if your a snobby metallurgist please be kind.
    The first explanation has to do with the carbon content of the blade. It says that if it's below .35% the steel can not be cooled rapidly enough to allow martensite, i.e. a hamon, to form. On the Thaitsuki website they do not say what kind of steel they use. They just say it's high carbon. But what do the consider high carbon? Who knows what they are using.
    The second explanation has to do with the temperature of the blade before it was quenched. If the temp was to low there is no way martensite could have formed. There could be other reasons but that's all the book talked about. You may want to ask some on At any rate they probably did clay the blade but for what ever reason there is no hamon.
    ...and both are cases of botched heat-treat, considered a fatal flaw, so that hardly makes it any better.

    Niel, if you've read the thread so far you missed the part where Remy already tried to go with acids, and it produced nothing. Either the blade is TH'd or a botched attempt at DH.
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  7. #57

    Thaisuki mistake

    Thanks to all who have put so much time into this thread. I live in Thailand and recentley spent a whole day driving to visit the thaitsuki forge....wish i would have read all of this before,would have saved me both time and money.guess my next move will be to fly to p. penh and visit the citadel.

  8. #58
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    Um, then care to share what you've seen at the forge?

  9. #59

    Hmmmmm.

    I have stayed silent as this thread developed. I used to own a Thaitsuki, in fact it was my first real sword purchase. The sword I had looked nothing like what is depicted in this thread. I wish I still had pictures to post to illustrate what it was but it was a decent sword, rather thin blade, with fittings that seemed a bit crudely made. When I first got it I was amazed with it, but my tastes matured and I grew weary of it so it was sold. From what I have seen here it seems that their quality has taken a nose dive. That is really too bad as I thought the hamon on the sword I owned was really neat and a big selling point. It was a real hamon, and to see where thay have gone with it is truly disapointing. I believe that I even recomended them at one point which is really disturbing to me just seeing how awful the "swords" have become.
    "Give any one species too much rope, and they'll F*#% it up."

  10. #60

    welll....

    First off I am in no way anywhere close to being able to comment in a technical manner. I am an absolute newbie when it comes to swords, i have been a collector of knives,mostly tactical folders. I own stuff from William-Henrey,Warren Thomas and Brad Duncan......The only katana i have is a cold steele dragonfly, that i have alot of fun with as a new backyard cutter. I like stuff that is well made and nice to look at. I will say that the owner of thaitsuki was a very polite young man who seemed embarassed in regards to the false history of his company. There were no finished products in his office and all that i saw was about two dozen unfinished blades that he told me were not yet quenched. He said that all of the ktn5 s were sold the minute they were completed.The price he quoted me for the ktn5 was about 750$ and an additional 500$ For the short sword.The blades did seem thin and whipy however as i said none were fitted with handles so i could not get a good feel. He told me that if i wanted one it would be 30 days to get and that he did not require any deposit.I returned home and was fortunate to find this forum. As i said earlier my next trip will be to cambodia to vist the citadel and spend some serous time with them.......Does anyone have any opinions towards them? Thanks

  11. #61
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    "...were not yet quenched..." "...He said that all of the ktn5 s were sold the minute they were completed..."

    I guess mine got sold 6 minutes too early... *cough cough*

  12. #62

    Thanks

    I guess I try and see the best in people, and at the time i was so excited to actually see somthing in thailand that i could grasp so immeadiatley without involving customs and a horrid wait that i wanted to believe that this forge was the real deal.....then i find this thread and it saved me from spending a good some of money for nothing........so now i am reading as much as i can in regards to what will make me a bit wiser.....i have in the past been screwed in alot of buisness deals , hell i have been in thailand for 16 years.....so i guess what i am trying to say is a big thank you for being so adamant in these posts.....

  13. #63
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    Care to share the location of the forge in Thailand?
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  14. #64

    location

    Sure, they are located off Rama 2 rd....there is a map on there web site www.thaitsukisword.com the owner can be contacted at customer@thaitsukisword.com his name is jack, as i said before he was a very polite person....i noticed from your address you list thailand , samutsakorn is very close to bangkok,about an hour south. regards.

  15. #65
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    Since i am in the process of puting another hamon on this, i thought i might take clear shots of the blade without a hamon before proceeding, you might see some stuff on the surface but its remants of the old faked hamon i added the last time...


    I am currently using finger stones on it but its a very slow process so i am no way near done... however, the hamon usualy show off at this stage on DH blades, i think i made my point.

  16. #66
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    Remy... your making me miss my ktn4!!!! I love that this thread is still trucken!!!!

  17. #67
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    I swear to gods, i will make something decent out of my thaitsuki or trash it while trying!!!!

  18. #68
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    unfortunately Remy - like god handing out brains , you cannot put in what the factory left out - although I really admire your gritty determination to make something out of it ,I only wish the vendor
    had behaved as well as you have ,

    heres hoping all your hard work pays off .

    more power to you mate .

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

  19. #69
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    Complain on www.bbb.com and help thousands of people, sorry about it dude.
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  20. #70
    Hi Remy,

    Save yourself the hassle and get a billet forged to rough shape i.e. 45mm x 10 mm x 1500mm(dont tell the smith what it is truly for yet as he might charge an arm and both legs).
    Work the blade using whatever method you like(hand files are labourious but satisfying and much eaiser to fix up a mistake as not much is removed-total of 16 hours max with a large cross cut should do the rough job
    then a finer grade of file).Belt grinders are great if you have a steady hand.belt sanders are great but slower-also have 240 grit belts commonly availible.

    Sand or stone blade to a medium polish.Now heres the trick for non traditional polishing.GET THE BLADE BEAD OR GLASS BEAD BLASTED.oil the blade as soon as you get it out of the blast booth to protect surface.
    This smooths out all the tiny scratches-also rounds over the ridge line(always a trade off somewhere).
    Apply your clay mix and return to smith for hardening-as he knows what the steel was he should know the best heat treatment.

    A special note-if the smith is using oil to quench he may want you to pay for the oil as the clay contaminates the oil.


    Final stage of the polish is to high speed buff with a wax bassed polish like tin oxide or red rouge.use a canvas wheel in a 4"-5" angle grinder and a heap of drop cloths as the polish agent gets everywhere.
    rotate the wheel towards the edge from the centre and be carefull not to catch the edges-DEATH MAY RESULT IF YOU SLIP-AT THE LEAST YOU WILL RUIN THE BLADE AND MAY GET A SEVERE INJURY.


    Clean the blade with a wax disolving solvent(good old petrol is STILL the cheapest) and oil with clove oil from the natural products or essential oils store.


    Make you fittings and saya to suit.

    End result is a sword of better quality than thaitsuki and a hell of alot of money left over(depending on the smiths fee).
    The sword is not a real Nihonto so who cares about the method used to finish it-Thaitsuki don't.

    Other method is to spend half your lifetime learning to do it right or you could do both methods-one for the sword now and one for the more traditional quality sword in a few(?) years and all the fun on the way.

    Regards John

  21. #71
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    I sent my Thaitsuki's to Tom, he's going to do a destruction test on the Katana to show how DANGEROUS they are if the heat treat fails. If it's like mine it will fail, as we found the heat treating to be VERY weak in the middle.

    Tom had good to say about the Wakizashi, interesting that after complaining it took them a month to get one to me and so that will be my combat mode Wak, but I've since bought a new Daisho and they are NOT Thaitsuki.

    Stay away from them. I bet on them and lost.

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  22. #72
    Thanks all for the good laugh I think i'll suggest a new name to them: Thaitsuki 'Wall hanger'
    https://www.facebook.com/TheSamuraiWorkshop - Custom sword mounts, restoration, Kaneie shinken and a whole lot more about Japanese history and martial arts culture


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  23. #73
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    Worst and crappiest rip off I ever had the experience from learning from.




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    True Karate-do is this: that in daily life, one's mind and body be trained and developed in a spirit of humility; and that in critical times, one be devoted utterly to the cause of justice.
    -Gichin Funakoshi

  24. #74
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    LOL, I just checked out their website and after a few seconds I noticed that the shitodome is on the wrong way on the kurikata! hahahaha It is inside out! wow!


  25. #75
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    This thread is 3 years old.... Why was it resurrected with off topic posts?
    I like swords.

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