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Thread: 9260 vid , blade snaps in half

  1. #1
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    9260 vid , blade snaps in half

    This one part of a 2 part youtube vid - I am posting it as lately
    we have had a number of new members raving about 9260 steel blades - this is to reinforce the fact that its not about steel type
    its more about forging, heat treating etc - also as its billed in some places as a miracle sword steel I want to show that nothing is idiot proof .

    also as its a new kid on the block a lot of the guys might be interested to see how a konron through hardened blade performs .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY_KC...eature=related

    at least he moved his kids out the way for the cow bone cut :-(

    another Konron katana vid - this one shows the boot lace ito quality wrap

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-A2c...eature=related

    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 03-30-2008 at 06:17 AM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



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    Good grief! That's in response to the poor ito quality rather than the fact that the blade broke - the latter is what I would expect under the circumstances, the former is just 'cheap'.
    Nuki .. OUCH!

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    I can't say I'm surprised on either occasion. With that "cutting technique" either the target was gonna be knocked over with the blade bending, or the blade was gonna come out of it in two pieces (it's just a question of where it was gonna snap). The tsuka-ito looks like the regular stuff you see on chinatana, step up from shoelaces but still way below good quality cotton or silk, anyway the ito material shouldn't take the blame but rather the "tsukamaki-shi" who used it inappropriately.

    I wish there was a vid of Big Tony's dodan cut that resulted in a broken high-end (was it HC or Bugei?) blade..
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  4. #4
    The blade Tony broke was a prototype of a hira zukuri blade made in katana length by Hanwei. The cut involved Tony coming down completely through the target and trying to angle out at the bottom when his full power and weight were behind the cut. The blade took the corner off the stand then the tip embedded into the leg of the sword, stopping it at an angle while Tony's power, weight and pressure were still behind it. So it snapped. I was there watching when it happened. I was also not affiliated at all with Bugei or Hanwei in any capacity at that time and I was asked to look over the blade. As was Howard Clark.

    The bottom line was that the geometry of the blade was never meant for that level of impact (which is also why you don't see hira zukuri katana historically very often). And even though Howard reported back that there was nothing wrong with the blade or heat treatment and that few people could generate the kind of power and abuse that Big Tony could generate, you'll note that there never was a hira zukuri katana released... That was not a sword ever offered on the retail market. Unlike the one in the video here.

    That video linked shows a guy with little power and even less form in comparison to what Tony did. And I disagree -- the blade should not have snapped -- I would have expected the blade to take the abuse, maybe bend, maybe get a chipped edge. The table wasn't exactly super stable. When Tony hit the stand base he basically slammed it at an angle into the entire planet. Nothing was going anywhere. Nothing could flex. Nothing could give. With an angled, twisting, powerful slam. The sword snapped. Not surprising. Most swords would have ended up as pretzels at a minimum, or broken as this one did.


    FWIW I had a 5160 sword made years ago that many claim is an "idiot proof" sword. It was thick and heavy and I had toyed with the idea for years of reshaping it into something a little more elegant looking. But when we had the chance to all get together to do some sword testing it became a test subject. Well, it snapped in half when we were testing a Clark L6 blade edge to edge against it with the 5160 blade literally screwed to a heavy post embedded in concrete. The cross section of this popular "super heavy duty beater" showed grain like hamburger. And it didn't snap at the point of impact even, but further down the blade on the "free floating" end. Bizarre. The intensity of the strike on the edge made the sword snap further down propogating a mune cut that was no more than about 2 mm deep. That mune cut propogated across the entire sword.


    There are no guarantees out there. And nothing is "idiot proof", the idiots are much too creative... And when the price point of the sword is very, very low you can be just as sure they're not doing precise heat treatments.

    That's the end result.
    Last edited by Keith Larman; 03-30-2008 at 09:13 AM.
    Keith Larman
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    Thumbs up Keith puts it more succinctly ......again

    Thanks Keith

    I think you,ve just summed up what i was hoping to convey ,


    " I want a katana made from 9260 for 300 bucks "

    is the latest rallying call emanating from some begginner posts lately - I just wanted to show that you dont buy the steel you buy the process ( or lack of one )

    what I found incredible was - here he is testing a low end katana
    an unklnown quantity really - yet he has his kids sat watching him a few yards behind , not really a very bright idea IMO .
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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    I agree with Keith, hence the old adage here that you get what you pay for.

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    Wow. Mick, thank you for posting this and the rest of you for speaking up to enforce good logic here. It's no wonder the general public have such a fear of swords. With the spotlight constantly on those who display such "Skill", no wonder people want laws in place to keep these things out of peoples hands.

    I thank God everyday that he has granted me the ability to learn not only from my own mistakes, but to also learn from others. Not that I would ever cut with my children in harms way, but this visual reinforcemant of stupidity just drives home how carefull one needs to be. Thank God no one was killed. The broken blade came very close to the mans leg. That injury itself could have been life altering. Phew.

    As for the ito.... well, there really isnt any surprise here for me anymore. I bet we all know basicly what lurks within the tsuka as well. A nakago ana that probably was routered and shimed. Short of making sure the materials used for a mount are exactly what you want, its a crap shoot. If you want it correct, you will pay. If you dont get it correct, you may pay much, much more.

    Thanks again Mick, good heads up.

    Skip

    Edit; I almost attacked the "swordsman" in this clip and the fact he is an untrained back yard cutter. I refrained as that is exactly what I am and didnt feel good about possibly condeming myself as well. Basicly, harsh as it is, and may be viewed, this person lacks what I would consider to be common sense. I dont see myself or many others like myself in the same catagory as this guy. I may not be formerly trained and realize nothing can take place of that, but I can excercise good judgemant and practice within my own limitations. And yes, that would include educating myself on the swords I'm using and using them as they were intended. I'll leave the the torture testing of blades to those who know what they are doing, and pay attention to what they say. Thank you Keith for your input. Your facts very often bring things into a much clearer view.

    Sorry for the rant, but I just couldnt refrain.

    Skip
    Last edited by Skip Gardner; 03-30-2008 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Another thought...

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    I almost went off on one at the guy in the vd as well skip - and I also thought not my place to do so - I cant condemn backyard cutting either mate

    we all have or continue to do it even though we know its not exactly legit or indeed wise , what irked me though was testing a newcomer to the low end market wth little kids sat behind him watching - how did he know the mekugi were not going to fail or indeed if he had a chopstick shimmed tsuka waiting give way ( oni ref ) fact is he didnt.

    that blade when it snapped could have stuck in his groin , severd the femeral artery and god forbd - he could have bled to death in a minute.

    I torture tested a £100 quid 'tony long' chinatana
    about 2 years ago - I wore welders gauntlets, motor bike leathers and had a crash helmet on - also there was no bystanders .

    health & safety often gets neglected by amatuer sword slingers - sometimes tragically .

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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    Some of the posters were not too bright either. One guy stating "I bet it was not normalized after hardening" Well I hope not, Maybe he is not a native english speaker, and mean's tempered.

    Another stated he felt that $300 is not a cheap sword? Its not just sword owners that need educated. Hard to blame many people for fearing swords.

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    I happen to be on a dutch forum where one of he members tested the sword on the bone, he posted some pictures of the break.



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    I am hoping steve or keith may shed some light on what we are seeing here in the pics of the break supplied by Rudd -

    when a ceness kat brake at the machi the pics showed large nobbly looking grains at the break - this looks the opposite of that .


    Rudd if the guy is a forum buddy of yours I apologise for coming off too harsh or critical - I speak as Ifind though and stand behind my earlier comments on safety issues .

    Sorry mate if I came off as beng a judgemental arse .

    Mick
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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    92xx series is like the 10xx series with 2% Silicon.
    good blade for when strength is desired.

    I am not a metalurgist. I am an electrician, and a bladesmith. From the picture, it looks like the grain of the blade is small, so I assume grain growth was not a contributing factor in the break. I t looks to have hardened well.

    In the second picture, I notice a flap of steel projecting away from the main body of the break, This tells me that it was twisted, and not a clean impact. BUt that is not supprising from the baseball bat grip and method of cutting he was "performing"

    I can not tell about tempering from the photo, but it does appear impact and the twist together cause the failure. But once again, metalography is not my expertise. Just my 2 cents.

  13. #13
    Hey, guys...

    Hard to say from photos. The first photo looks more "grainy" than the second. Having photographed stuff like this the angle of light can make a huge difference in making the size of the grain "show" in a photo. So it is hard to say.


    Look, the bottom line here is that there are two issues involved in these sorts of things. And they're issues that give me great pause to even post on these forums any longer. The first is the idea that swords *should* be indestructible. Guys posting about wanting swords for "hard cutting". Then getting upset when folk suggest they get good training. The stronger sword doesn't absolve the user from being safe in the first place. To me it is like arguing that you can fly a jumbo jet like an idiot because someone installed air bags in the cockpit...

    The second is issue is the one of wanting "super tough" swords for as little money as possible. Careful, controlled heat treatment, shaping, forging, etc. isn't exactly amenable to cheap. Where you can get inexpensive blades is from some forges overseas where labor costs are very low. But these guys are working on very small margins and frankly most don't know a thing about Japanese swords. So the desire for cheap Japanese style swords and super strong swords are really somewhat at odds. Combine that with lax quality control, the lack of qualified people inspecting these swords (did that one have a tiny hagiri? That was one of the first thoughts in my mind...) and the generally horrible mounts and you may find yourself holding the one sword that is going to fail... And you simply won't know it until it does.

    And then folk go take them to metal barrels...

    The guy's form was terrible. And his judgement even worse. And the blade failed. Maybe even a better blade would have failed. But Japanese style swords were never made for cutting "dead" bone locked down in a vice! And especially not with horrible form. That's why these guys train so very much -- there is a very specific form taught for proper cutting. And also ideally they're taught that some targets really aren't a very good idea...

    So there really are two issues. One is about the very large context of proper form in using the weapon along with the selection of appropriate targets. The reason folk suggest getting at least some training is that what many think swords should be able to do often is completely out of sync with reality. The second is one of quality of these blades given the market forces pushing for super cheap blades that will take horrendous abuse. And the large number of vendors falling over each other to offer increasingly cheaper swords they say are "super tough". So you have people doing increasingly stupid things with swords (sometimes unwittingly -- surf through posts here about what people do with their swords rather regularly) thinking their "inexpensive tough beater sword" can't get damaged. But when they fail...

    Russian Roulette with a gun with 50 chambers and one round. Odds are good you won't hit the live round. But when you do... It isn't that the odds aren't in your favor -- they are. It is the magnitude of the consequences of when you do lose that are the problem...

    For years I've joked that these attitudes seen on many forums is much like two trains heading towards each other at full speed on the same track. One of these days they're going to collide with horrific results.
    Keith Larman
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    I couldn't agree more Keith. However, the biggest share of the blame for this nonsense are the places that started this whole "look how much punishment this sword can take" mentality. The manufacturers and some of the idiots who have never held a genuine sword in their hand or had an ounce of training, yet feel compelled to test a given sword's durability. How many ebay sites have CAN CUT IRON or show some avi of somebody abusing a blade to show how good it is?
    First off, swords aren't meant to cut 2X4's, branches, or metal drums.
    Secondly, if the person in that video had a $30,000 koto masterpiece, the chances are fairly good the end results would have been the same -or the sword would have twisted like a pretzel.
    Granted, there are posters here who have never had the opportunity to hold a traditional sword or acquire proper training, yet have opinions on what a good sword should do. To my mind, that only makes it more important that the ones that have had those opportunities to continue to educate those who haven't.

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    I agree what keith and Gary say, and share some light on the situation.
    This sword was given to the person for destructive testing by a sword shop, the review is also on the Dutch forum, I think he was succesfull at the test.. he also says never to do this to one of his own swords, and he has lots of swords
    The thing is, many many low budget katana owners dont know a thing about the swords they are holding and believe what they see in the movies, and think a katana can cut a car in half.
    Reading up on swords and there construction is a good start for all sword owners, following with proper training would really top it off.
    I to have only had 5 lessons of training and wish there was a Dojo within a hours drive.. but there isnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    I couldn't agree more Keith. However, the biggest share of the blame for this nonsense are the places that started this whole "look how much punishment this sword can take" mentality. The manufacturers and some of the idiots who have never held a genuine sword in their hand or had an ounce of training, yet feel compelled to test a given sword's durability. How many ebay sites have CAN CUT IRON or show some avi of somebody abusing a blade to show how good it is?
    First off, swords aren't meant to cut 2X4's, branches, or metal drums.
    Secondly, if the person in that video had a $30,000 koto masterpiece, the chances are fairly good the end results would have been the same -or the sword would have twisted like a pretzel.
    Granted, there are posters here who have never had the opportunity to hold a traditional sword or acquire proper training, yet have opinions on what a good sword should do. To my mind, that only makes it more important that the ones that have had those opportunities to continue to educate those who haven't.

    I agree with Keith whole heartedly on this issue. The fact of the matter is that swords of true quality will never come cheap even if it touts the newest new fangled super steel of the moment, if there is shoddy work work behind it, and worse still if its owner does not have any training to use it.

    I shake my head over and over at these guys doing back yard cutting and these insane batton twists with their swords because what it tells me is that they wish they had training, but usually will settle on the latest move by Duncan McLeod.

    I had the pleasure of attending the Token Kai in Chicago last year as well as the Atlanta blade show and was able to look at peices from some of the worlds most reknowned smiths. A katana that is worth $30,000 will perform just as good as any of these blades that tout Tameshigiri geometry, but is it necessary to test it to see if it cuts well? I don't find the need to because the smith who made it would have done this in his earlier years of smithing just to make sure his work was sound. There just seems to be such an insatiable need to prove that a sword can cut. So people will cut anything from fruit, Pringles cans, pool noodles, boxes and the like just because they feel they need to. That is where proper training should be sought before doing such things.

    One needs to know how to handle the sword in conjuction with his or her body. One needs to understand the need for proper hasuji (blade angle) and (ma'ai) distance for the best cut. And without the trained eye of a qualified teacher, one will never ever learn this properly. But besides this, proper training will also give you the good sense of why one wishes to learn how to use it because learning how is one thing while learning why is another. Responsibility is key.

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    Another thing I'm going to point out (since we're venting here) is that if you really want to learn any sword art, it's not like karate. There's not going to be a dojo around the corner. I don't know how many times someone has suggested a dojo in this forum to someone who wanted to learn, only to get the reply; "I'm looking for something (X) hours close to me."
    Let me tell you how my own path to learning went. My first teacher blew his hip and ended up needing hip replacement. I practiced with the senior student for a time, until it became obvious that our teacher wasn't going to return. So I went to our teacher, who refered me to another teacher about 45 minutes away.
    When he moved to FL after several years,(I live in NY) I did some research and found the closest schools were in Manhattan - about a 5 hour ride. Since I didn't have a particularly good car, I ended up going Greyhound. Once a month, my schedule went like this: Take the 2:30 AM bus to Manhattan. Arrive around 8:00. Take the subway to my first class. Wait an hour or so until the class started. Finish the class. Have lunch with the dojo members. Walk uptown. Wait for a class with another dojo (BTW, I got permission from both schools before I did this. If anybody reading this is considering paticipating in a different dojo than the one they are currently with, always get permission from your teacher. Both teachers in my case were very gracious and not only allowed it but actually encouraged it.) Finish that class. Go back to the bus station. Take the bus back on the five hour ride home.
    Clamber off the bus with horrible leg cramps from sitting so long! Get in my car and go home. Practice what I just learned so I wouldn't forget it. I did this for a year, until health considerations made me a bit leery about traveling alone. After that I went several times with some of my students to Massachusetts to attend seminars.
    At this point in time, I'm gradually getting back in the swing of things (no pun intended!) and am seriously considering contacting a school in Tennesee about 4 hours away from my girlfriend's family since we are considering going there this summer for a visit.
    The few legitimate instructors out there are spaced pretty far apart. The internet has done a wonderful thing in that most dojo's are now pretty easy to locate. Take advantage of this and make a commitment to learn...

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    Confessions and observations

    Somewhere around 1959, my mum hung up a wonderful Japanese hanging depicting a Japanese Daimyo in seiza, dressed to the nines. That and other early life impressions such as mum's fencing foils, Errol Flynn and Disney were impedus to my interests in swords and times long past. Several stage versions of Gilbert & Sullivan's Mikado didn't hurt in instilling no little interest in Japanese culture.

    Somewhere in the early 1990s, I started viewing katana as perhaps desirable and maybe my first actual sword purchase. Oddly attracted to an Art Gladius set, they were almost my first purchase. My first real sword was a dumpster dive jian about a decade previous that I had rehilted. With the wonders of the internet, I started ogling Michael Bell's work and should have, could have placed an order. From there, watching the beginnings of Bugei and the first Hanwei offerings turning up.

    A couple of more years go by and I find my interests changing to closet fop and romantic notions of Shakespearean epics like Romeo & Juliet. After even more time of looking at offerings, my first late modern reproduction was/is a sidesword. After much air cutting, I did sharpen it up and started perfecting rising cuts on empty cracker boxes. An Atrim, a couple of Arms & Armor pieces and some other swords later; I picked up a Hanwei Practical Katana in the spring of 2003 (just to see what all the fuss was about).

    It was within that year that I was able to approach stands of Bugei wara mats and although they rise tall, easily cut with a variety of blades. A second session with those was at a public meet and greet we still do every year. My partner asked a young boy which sword he would like to see cut a mat. The lad pointed to the PK and my partner pointed to me. After explaining that one must be careful, I approached the stand and not only over extended trying to take a small section off the top but ended up unbalanced.

    Don't think steel toed boots are always insurance against stupidity and inexperience. As the blade skated across the top of my foot, i'm thinking
    "geeze, you klutz" As the kissaki traps under the steel cap when I try to raise the sword and slides between two toes I think "darn, my good boots" and "I felt that". I finished four more slices on the mat and sat down to take my boot off while muttering a bunch. Never discount the effectiveness of direct pressure to control a bleeder. A couple of hours and eight stitches later, I go back to pack up my swords. I was back the next day cutting with the same sword and wounded boot, pride and foot.

    My PK turns out to be a pretty expensive sword, as my insurance didn't cover hazardous hobbies.

    On Videos, Retailers, Results and Reality.

    There is an unfortunate trend of retailers posting videos of sword "tests" and this one ends up on the retailer's site in a way to promote the incident as pointing out the positive merits of these swords.

    Another thing that is not really new and folk just don't seem to understand. it is causing a fair number of bent and even broken swords. Unyielding objects and strikes to/with a perceived "sweet spot". Try to explain that and one is met with the misunderstanding that one should always strive to cut with a section of the blade that far back. With one sword I own that is more than true as the crossection is nearly square from the mathematical center of percussion to the tip. With a great many more swords, the leading six to ten inches of a blade is going to be pretty darn effective. I'm attaching a picture of a large European reproduction pretty much falling through a wara mat with a more tip oriented cut. Virtually no muscle behind this one and more involved in cotrol once through.

    So anyway. I could probably type for hours and not really make much sense, so I'll stop now. What are we anyway but a bunch of elitist snobs that don't seem to understand that having fun is more important than any caveats about safety, quality and truths. I spent countless hours thinking and re-thinking my first sword purchase. I spent many hours "dry" cutting before I even started playing with cracker boxes. I had no business thinking I knew how to handle a katana but I am showing a bit more control at times. My new passion is sabres and spadroons but I still like cutting with larger and longer swords. Those usually reach the ground before they can get to one's own body parts.


    Empty plastic jugs and bottles are more of a challenge than wet ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruud B View Post
    I agree what keith and Gary say, and share some light on the situation.
    This sword was given to the person for destructive testing by a sword shop, the review is also on the Dutch forum, I think he was succesfull at the test.. he also says never to do this to one of his own swords, and he has lots of swords
    Why give any sword for review to a person, and then post this stuff on YouTube? I mean, review and breaking a sword should be mutually exclusive, especially if the reviewer really has (extensive?) experience with swords? What bugs me about this kinda stuff (on several websites and forums, and of course YouTube) is that people who very obviously have no training in using *ANY* sword go whack stuff with them; what's the point in that, apart from proving the JSA community that some person has no idea what he/she is doing?
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo Qvintus View Post
    Why give any sword for review to a person, and then post this stuff on YouTube? I mean, review and breaking a sword should be mutually exclusive, especially if the reviewer really has (extensive?) experience with swords? What bugs me about this kinda stuff (on several websites and forums, and of course YouTube) is that people who very obviously have no training in using *ANY* sword go whack stuff with them; what's the point in that, apart from proving the JSA community that some person has no idea what he/she is doing?
    Because true Ninja don't use training that oppressive samurai use!

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    I should probably mention that the previous post was a joke.
    P.S. If you are a ninja, please don't use your powers of invisibility to sneak up on me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary S View Post
    Because true Ninja don't use training that oppressive samurai use!
    I disagree with Leonidas. This is not Sparta, this is madness!
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

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    one born every minute

    as much as I like some sites and their founders I have to admit that I now think all these test vids out there are definitely sending out the wrong message to people ,

    we've seen it lately with new guys wanting 9260 swords without considering anything else because they saw the youtube test vids of the SGC or kaze cutting into 2x4's or steel oil drums.

    as they try to emulate what they saw in the 'adverts' I think we will see a lot more instances of snapped blades and god forbid - maybe more accidents .

    Imagine if PT Barnum was a sword vendor ? He'd be ballyhooing
    up a storm about some new miracle steel for his swords - a carbon steel 90210 or something .

    people are suckers for what there eyes can see in front of them
    like 9260 in the title or something marketed as a heavy duty cutter is used in a promo vid to hack into steel drums - they're sold on the sensational - what they are less concerned about is intangibles like heat treating,tempering,tsuka construction - they dont see any sensational vids of those things so they dont think about them at all.

    I guess we will see all this again when the forges start making
    $300 L6 blades - somebody will do a few test vids and that will be it - right on queue anime fans will be wanting one thinking they are getting a performance sword the equal of a HC L6 piece. ( shudders )


    Mick
    Last edited by michael wilson; 04-02-2008 at 02:43 PM.
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael wilson View Post
    as much as I like some sites and their founders I have to admit that I now think all these test vids out there are definitely sending out the wrong message to people ,

    we've seen it lately with new guys wanting 9260 swords wothout considering anyhting else because " they saw the youtube test vids of the SGC or kaze cutting into 2x4's or steel oil drums.

    as they try to emulate what they saw in the 'adverts' I think we will see a lot more instances of snapped blades and god forbid - maybe more accidents .

    Imagine if PT Barnum was a sword vendor ? He'd be ballyhooing
    up a storm about some new miracle steel for his swords - a carbon steel 90210 or something .

    people are suckers for what there eyes can see in front of them
    like 9260 in the title or something marketed as a heavy duty cutter is used in a promo vid to hack into steel drums - they're sold on the sensational - what they are less concerned about is intangibles like heat treating,tempering,tsuka construction - they dont see any sensational vids of those things so they dont think about them at all.

    I guess we will go through all this when the forges start making
    $300 L6 blades - somebody will do a few test vids and that will be it - right on queue every newbie will be wanting one thinking they are getting a performance sword the equal of a HC L6 piece. ( shudders )


    Mick
    Though I have my own opinions on these swords, I do realize that there is a market for these inexpensive beaters. The problem is with these vids on YouTube touting these 9260 Chintanas may well be a be all end all sword for the base bargain price of $200. There is no real need to overly abuse a sword for no reason rather than turning it all into one big pissing contest.

    The sword will always be the sum of its parts, and if you think that a $200 sword has the attention to detail that custom handmade or even at times semi-custom have, you have another thing coming.

    Getting into this hobby is no small thing. However, I hope that for those who are starting out their journey here with these swords, that they will still strive to move forward and get a sword that is truly a work of art that can come off the stand and do its job if need be.

    My thing is that I would rather take my time and save for something that I know will be sound, rather than play Russian roulet with something that will in most cases fail, and fail miserably.

    Great points Mic. Hope you are well. How's the weather in England?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    north east England
    Posts
    3,052

    easter in the snow

    Bloody awful here Tom mate - thanks for asking though - the long overdue ice age has started on the far north east coast of England directly over my house

    I feel a bit bad about being harsh on youtube sword test vids - yeah I cringe when I see someone in a T shirt abusing a blade but thats my opinion only -

    I just dont like the false message this sends out to people looking to buy a 1st sword and admittedly all the best advice we can offer about seeking proper training or spend your first $200 on some good books must seem pretty lame by comparison.

    cheers
    " Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."



    Ephesians 6:11

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