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Thread: Why Rat tail tang exist ?

  1. #1

    Why Rat tail tang exist ?

    hi to all,
    it's just for coriosity but ....i really don't know why
    rat tail tang must exist...
    what are the advantages to do that ? is more cheaper ?
    or is for separate wallhanger swords from combat-ready sword ?
    Some one can tell me why ?


    Thanks

    See Ya!

  2. #2
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    Re: Why Rat tail tang exist ?

    I dont know, but I assume that is cheaper to make.

    all you would need to do is make blade blanks and handle blanks and then attach them together. allowing you to easily fit multiple handles onto multiple blades. Lowering costs.

    At least thats what I assume.

    Originally posted by Simone Romano
    hi to all,
    it's just for coriosity but ....i really don't know why
    rat tail tang must exist...
    what are the advantages to do that ? is more cheaper ?
    or is for separate wallhanger swords from combat-ready sword ?
    Some one can tell me why ?


    Thanks

    See Ya!
    Eric Litton

  3. #3
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    Ratty Tails

    They must be less expensive to produce that way, as the super-cheapo junk swords are almost universal in their use of welded-on rat tail construction.

    --Anthony
    "One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back. "
    --Carrol Lewis

  4. #4
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    Re: Why Rat tail tang exist ?

    Originally posted by Simone Romano
    hi to all,
    it's just for coriosity but ....i really don't know why
    rat tail tang must exist...
    what are the advantages to do that ? is more cheaper ?
    or is for separate wallhanger swords from combat-ready sword ?
    Some one can tell me why ?


    Thanks

    See Ya!
    Simone-

    Some sword manufactuers claim "battle ready" swords and they are cheaply thin welded rat-tails. Folks try to cut with them and they break, they swing them around and they can break. If you want a wallhanger by all means...

    Maybe some of the more expert members and blacksmiths here can give you more detailed info.

    Sometimes I think its an evolutionary process...don't buy and maybe they will become extinct.

    dave
    dave
    "Honi soit, qui mal y pense"
    (Shamed be anyone who thinks evil of it)
    24th Regiment of Foot

    "La mama dei grulli è sempre pregna"
    ( the mother of morons is always pregnant).

    Clan Lamont!

    Just keep on truckin' baby

  5. #5
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    Re: Re: Why Rat tail tang exist ?

    CHeaper to make.one reason may be .because the handle can be applied easily with a small drilled hole...not one that requires burning to add a wider tang..
    TAO - Life is Zen, so are swords...
    "What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

  6. #6
    Well I know for one reason on medieval blades is so that various endcaps can fit onto the hilt. It might look strange for the end cap to fit over the hilt on these style swords. But for some katana it is because the handles are cheap plastic and pinning them to the blade would break the handle for sure during tameshigiri. But then again so would the rattail tang.
    Glen Mergnes

  7. #7
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    easier to break

    I would put forth the proposition that they also make them so they will break easier. Basically if you sell something that is designed to be a wall hanger then the last thing a company wants is for somone to actually try to use the sword, especially to hack someone up with. If you make a sturdy tang then you have a bad sword, if you put a weak rat tail tang then is a display-only piece. I also agree with all the other reasons such as the fact that its easier to make handles and fit them in bulk using the rat tail method.

    Cheers
    C

  8. #8
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    Re: easier to break

    It does make sense, then again, if they really wanted to make them safe, they would stop making some of them razor sharp so they could be called "functional" and a razor sharp blade flying around after its set free from the handle is not that fun.

    They also dont break at the right times either. When someone is playing with their sword they break, but I have yet to hear about one of those crazy sword wielding people (the ones who go up against the police) have their sword break and so the police captured them instead of killing them.

    Basically, these companies want to make money, So they imploy the cheapest way. Witch is a rat tail and a poor, cheap, weld.

    Originally posted by CiaranF
    I would put forth the proposition that they also make them so they will break easier. Basically if you sell something that is designed to be a wall hanger then the last thing a company wants is for somone to actually try to use the sword, especially to hack someone up with. If you make a sturdy tang then you have a bad sword, if you put a weak rat tail tang then is a display-only piece. I also agree with all the other reasons such as the fact that its easier to make handles and fit them in bulk using the rat tail method.

    Cheers
    C
    Eric Litton

  9. #9

    Re: Re: easier to break

    Originally posted by Eric Litton
    It does make sense, then again, if they really wanted to make them safe, they would stop making some of them razor sharp so they could be called "functional" and a razor sharp blade flying around after its set free from the handle is not that fun.

    They also dont break at the right times either. When someone is playing with their sword they break, but I have yet to hear about one of those crazy sword wielding people (the ones who go up against the police) have their sword break and so the police captured them instead of killing them.

    Basically, these companies want to make money, So they imploy the cheapest way. Witch is a rat tail and a poor, cheap, weld.

    I think that all this reason are the answer for "why rat tail exist"
    ...today i've buy United cutlery Frodo sting... a very nice short sword (or long dagger as you prefer ) ...good balance
    and weight but ..i know that is a half-rat-tail tang
    now..i've spent 200$ for buy this sword ..how much cost for UC a sting with a full tang ? 300$ i'll buy it aniway ..but i think very very less than 100$ of difference . and u ? wanna pay a bit more
    for a good blade (sharpned or sharpless as you want) ?.
    then we can start a mail bombing for better blades

    See ya


    p.s.= maybe this week-end i'll post a review of my visit to the raven armoury

  10. #10

    Re: Why Rat tail tang exist ?

    Originally posted by Simone Romano
    hi to all,
    it's just for coriosity but ....i really don't know why
    rat tail tang must exist...
    what are the advantages to do that ? is more cheaper ?
    or is for separate wallhanger swords from combat-ready sword ?
    Some one can tell me why ?


    Thanks

    See Ya!
    Because some people care nothing for craftsmanship & pride in their work, they're lazy & want to make a quick buck! The FOOLS! *Huffs*

  11. #11
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    I think these might have something to do with it:

    .

    The "rat tail' has been used quite successfully on fencing swords since time immemorial, or at least longer than I've been around, which is more or less the same thing. I would guess well back into the nineteenth century.

    They aren't used on these swords as a matter of economy but because it's easy to interchange parts.


    Image from: Fencing Equipment USA.
    Sikandur~~Aim Small, Miss Small

  12. #12
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    Re: Re: Re: easier to break

    Originally posted by Simone Romano
    ...then we can start a mail bombing for better blades \
    Just noticed this, Simone. I'm hoping you meant it as a joke.

    It's not funny.
    Sikandur~~Aim Small, Miss Small

  13. #13

    Re: Re: Re: Re: easier to break

    Originally posted by Scott Bubar


    Just noticed this, Simone. I'm hoping you meant it as a joke.

    It's not funny.
    uhm.... no i'm NEO of matrix and now i'll conquest the world...
    it's a big joke off course
    you don't see the big smile above ?
    By the way the next time i'll write "it's a joke" , ok ?

    Sorry if some1 believe me a mailbomber or everythingelse...

    p.s.=Just noticed this, Scott ...i work for Veritas italy and i'm a checkpoint system engineer... the last think that i want is a hacker
    discussion forum ok ?

    Sorry to all.

    See ya.

  14. #14
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: easier to break

    Originally posted by Scott Bubar


    Just noticed this, Simone. I'm hoping you meant it as a joke.

    It's not funny.
    Heres a joke for ya.

    Whats the fastest game in Ireland?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Pass the parcel in a border pub......


    C

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Scott Bubar
    The "rat tail' has been used quite successfully on fencing swords since time immemorial, or at least longer than I've been around, which is more or less the same thing. I would guess well back into the nineteenth century.

    They aren't used on these swords as a matter of economy but because it's easy to interchange parts.
    Those are good points, but at the same time, there is quite a difference between a one pound epee and a two and a half pound cut-and-thrust sword; the blade is much bigger on the latter, and certainly requires more support from the tang.

    Best regards to all,

    Robert Marks
    Robert Marks
    Darksword Armory, Inc.
    www.darksword-armory.com

    "I'm not asking you to trade food for swords all the time, just food for THESE swords."

    "Sir, if we accepted your swords, then we'd have to accept EVERYBODY's swords..."
    - Home Movies

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Robert B. Marks


    Those are good points, but at the same time, there is quite a difference between a one pound epee and a two and a half pound cut-and-thrust sword; the blade is much bigger on the latter, and certainly requires more support from the tang.

    Best regards to all,

    Robert Marks
    Agreed. It should also be noted that most rat-tails today are attached via substandard welds. It is as though they were designed to come apart under stress. I doubt any 19th century models had the same feature. They only came apart where they were supposed to, I'd wager.

    --Anthony
    "One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back. "
    --Carrol Lewis

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