Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Validation of a 1849 Ames 1840 style Heavy Cavalry Saber

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13

    Validation of a 1849 Ames 1840 style Heavy Cavalry Saber

    Good afternoon gentlemen.

    I am a newbe to the forum although I have been monitoring for several months, learning greatly from your observations and comments. Taking heed of the excellent advice given here to try and avoid purchasing a fake sword, I have studied Thillmann's "Civil War Cavalry & Artillery Sabers" and Hamilton's "The Ames Sword Company 1829-1935" carefully as well as the "makers' Mark" guide “Manufacturers of Regulation Model Enlisted Swords During the US Civil War" by Mike McWatters located on the web with many pictures of makers' marks at:

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcol...rks/page1.html

    I believe I have purchased an original Ames, based on all of the excellent advice provided on this forum and in the above publications, but I am no sword expert. Hence I would really appreciate comments from this august group as to the authenticity of my purchased sword. Pictures follow but first a comment about the saber I purchased. It is marked:

    AMES MFG. CO.
    CABOTVILLE
    1849

    Tillmann seems to imply in "Civil War Cavalry & Artillery Sabers” (page 51) that Ames sabers produced after 1848 were marked:

    AMES MFG. CO.
    CHICOPEE
    MASS

    However, Hamilton, in "The Ames Sword Company 1829-1935" shows on pages 142-143, an 1849 U.S Mounted Rifleman’s Knife with the identical labeling as on my saber indicating Cabotville. Even the inspector's mark "WD" is the same as on my saber on the reverse side under "US". My saber also has "WD” and "JWR" on the pommel. "JWR" appears on the Rifleman's Knife in Hamilton, on the knife's guard.

    Also, a picture in "Manufacturers of Regulation Model Enlisted Swords During the US Civil War" by Mike McWatters located on the web shows an Ames Saber dated 1850 as having the same markings as my saber including the "CABOTVILLE" address:

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcol...rks/page1.html

    and selecting the link: Heavy cavalry saber, dated 1850

    Also see the link for a light artillery sabre dated 1849, also showing "CABOTVILLE" for the adress

    select the link: Light artillery saber, dated 1849

    Hence, to my admittedly unskilled and untrained eye, it would seem that the markings on my saber are correct. I've attached 5 photos of the saber and will send more in subsequent posts.

    However, I would very much appreciate any and all comments pro and con from the group and I thank you in advance for you help.

    Best regards -- Roy Norris
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by Roy Norris; 05-24-2008 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13

    Continued: Validation of a 1849 Ames 1840 style Heavy Cavalry Saber

    More pictures of my 1849 Ames Heavy Cavalry Saber.

    More to come.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13

    Final of Continued: Validation of a 1849 Ames 1840 style Heavy Cavalry Saber

    Here is the final set of pictures of my 1849 Ames heavy Calvary Saber for review.

    Thanks for your help.

    Best rgards -- Roy Norris
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13
    Alothough I have corrected the original message, the original link given to the picture of the 1850 Ames Heavy Cavalry Saber in my first post did not work. The picture can be reached at the following URL:

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/swordcol...rks/page1.html

    and select the link: Heavy cavalry saber, dated 1850

    Also see the link for a light cavalry sabre dared 1849, also showing "CABOTVILLE" for the adress

    select the link: Light artillery saber, dated 1849



    Sorry for the confusion.

    Roy Norris
    Last edited by Roy Norris; 05-24-2008 at 10:44 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    1,455
    Don't sweat it. You have a nice clean M1840 Ames-made saber. Enjoy!
    Last edited by Dmitry Z~G; 05-24-2008 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    13

    Talking Thanks !!

    Thanks Dmitri - I appreciate your comments. I am a bit relieved now! Some of the fakes are getting so good that it is almost impossible for someone who is inexperienced, like me, to tell for sure.

    I did elect to purchase from a well known and reputable dealer and I am sure that is the way for any beginner to go. You pay a bit more, but I look at that as an insurance policy. Plus the dealer had no problem issuing a letter of authenticity stating that he would take the saber back and refund my money if it was ever shown to be a fake by competent authority.

    Thanks again for the help.

    Best regards --
    Roy in So. Cal.
    ------------------------
    A Black Powder Revolver, a Bowie Knife and a Saber made one mounted rider a formidable foe.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    12

    Ames Model 1840 dated 1851 with Cabotville address

    Thillmann himself shows an example of an Ames Model 1840 with the Cabotville address that is dated 1851.

    Page 68 at the top right. You have to study it carefully to see that it is Cabotville, not Chicopee.

    I recently purchased a similar example. Without the information provided in this excellent forum, I would not have had the courage to do so.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    North East USA
    Posts
    3,048
    Blog Entries
    1
    A handsome example, Roy. PB, feel free to post pics of your acquisition!
    mark@swordforum.com

    ~ Hostem Hastarum Cuspidibus Salutemus ~

    "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who don't."
    Benjamin Franklin

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    southwest Mississippi
    Posts
    38

    Excellent example

    The Old Wristbreaker is one of my favorite swords, you have an excellent example. The one I own is dated 1847, and is well used, not nearly as pretty as yours. Happy Collecting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #10
    Did the US actually have Heavy Cavalry? I thought not. Or are we talking about a Light Cavalry pattern which is quite heavy in weight?

    David

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Nipmuc USA
    Posts
    11,851
    Hi David,

    My take on it is similar to what you are inferring. They are a bit heavier and larger than the British 1821 which was the model for the U.S. 1833. Dragoons both, by the American Civil War it was more a case of mounted infantry movement instead of many massed charges (but there were some) or even a great deal of melee with swords drawn (but there was some).

    As the lighter of the two patterns adopted during the ACW, it has generally been easier to regard the U.S. M1840 as the heavy and the lighter build the light, or 1860 (although that designation is a misnomer) which doesn't show up in ordnance paperwork until 1862 . Those lighter (1822 types) are more like the French cavalry officer builds and you can see that in the grip contours and some of the blade weights of the continent.

    So, no "heavy cavalry" per se, just an Americanized description of the bigger sword. Below attached is the 1861 plate that just lists it as a cavalry sword, with the "light cavalry" indication for officers. The light pattern starts showing up from Ames as early as 1859, if not before that.

    A good short page or two linked here for the swords.

    http://howardlanham.tripod.com/link11d.htm
    http://www.awod.com/cwchas/m1840.html

    Cheers

    Hotspur; I honestly don't recall much of Peterson's pages in regard to these but more can be found there (along with this plate)
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #12
    Just my 2cents worth--you've got a very good example. The grind marks near the ricasso are intact, the pommel hasn't been removed, the leather is original, the scabbard is undented, the original leather buffer pad is intact, and the ridge between the fuller and the edge bevel is still sharp and not worn down through polishing. Overall a good example.

    Mike

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •