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Thread: Sword ID , Shamsir or Mongol Sword

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Medan , North Sumatera Province , Indonesia
    Posts
    39

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Millbrook, Alabama
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    420

  3. #3

    It's not a shamshir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jhony Leung View Post
    Hi,

    Anybody can help me identify this sword ?

    Authenthic or fake one ?

    Pls let me know if i need give more information.

    Thanks & Rgds
    Jhony Leung
    Hey Jhony,
    I don't believe it is fake, although it is quite unusual. Usually the fakes are made in easily recognizable forms. Usually... It's not a shamshir and I don't have enough experience with Mongolian arms to give you any qualified impressions. It looks more like a shashka/shashqa to me. Since many of the best shashkas have Persian blades, it may have some connection to Iranian origins. Mongolian? Josh Stout should have some valuable information for you. "Calling Josh Stout." You might also post these photos in the Antique Arms and Armor Middle-Eastern section to get some expert advice. Ask Manouchehr M. about it's possible Islamic origins. He's the Man! I am very interested in their assessment. A very intriguing piece, though. I love a good mystery!

    Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 06-30-2008 at 04:29 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  4. #4
    Hello Jhony,

    Welcome aboard!

    That should be a Batak design (from your neck of the disappearing Sumatran woods ).

    I'm highly suspicious of the blade though - seems like a really poor replacement to me (compared to antique Batak blades)...
    Regards,
    Kai

  5. #5

    Thumbs up Right you are Kai!!!

    Well Jhony,
    I did a simple Google search of Batak swords and found a couple links to some very similar swords: http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/...taks_art_sword & http://www.geocities.com/keris4u/oth...er_weapons.htm
    Kai is absolutely correct! I am frankly surprised that you do not know this, being from Sumatra. What's that about? Are you testing us, trying to generate interest in selling this sword or is this simply an innocent query??? I mean no direct offense to you Jhony but I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this anomaly. Regardless... Welcome to Sword Forum International! Folks are more than willing to lend a helping hand, in regards to identification and sharing of their knowledge.

    Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi
    Last edited by jonpalombi; 06-30-2008 at 06:45 PM.
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    657
    Could this have been a remounted captured blade ? The closest indonesian blade I could think of was a peudeung ( sikin) pasangan but the furniture is totatlly wrong for that. There have also been some Surik, from Timor that have a curving blade like this, often foreign made , but again the furniture is wrong. both can be seen in Von Zonneveld's book and I believe the people on the Front of Draeger' s book are using a surik
    Courage does not always roar
    Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day that says "I will try again tomorrow"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Medan , North Sumatera Province , Indonesia
    Posts
    39
    Hello All,

    I know Josh , and i have email Josh about this, i also mention my doubt about the carving, it`s look like malay carving.

    I also shown this to Charles Saunders , he also doubt about this and told me this sword might be a fake one or old remade sword.

    I hv meet sumatera edge weapon expert in Medan , a museum curator, he told me this is 100% not original batak, although Batak Karo has a close motif with this.

    http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/photo/9/4

    I have a picture from one of your link, in Medan , North Sumatera, we believe the long sword in middle are not make by bataknese , either batak toba , batak simalungun , batak karo , batak dairi or other bataknese. There are many opinion that this sword were bring to Sumatera by portugal colonist, but still not confirmed ( i have one of them without scabbard )

    and on

    http://sibabiat.multiply.com/photos/...ks_art_sword#5

    The bottom sword , that`s Aceh peudeung although with batak karo influence. Hilt style and silver decorative on scabbard shown it very well.
    ( actually i have some of this swords on my collection )

    I obtain this sword on Aceh.

    Rgds
    Jhony

  8. #8

    Question So the plot thickens.

    Now, now, Jhony....
    "A wise person aspires the study of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy teacher, an unlucky person finds yet another student... in the guise of a genuine Master. Sadly, a fool cannot tell the difference either way." Anecdotes of The Unknown Swordsman

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    657
    Charles would certainy be someone whose opinion I wold listen to on this, here are the curved blade aceh swords I was talking about, To me the telling factor of if it is a fake or a composite piece with the blade remounted in unusual fittings would be how well the blade was made. I cannot tell that from the pictures



    and



    The Timor sword is here ( again similar blade very different fittings )
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by JTCrosby; 07-01-2008 at 07:31 AM.
    Courage does not always roar
    Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day that says "I will try again tomorrow"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Medan , North Sumatera Province , Indonesia
    Posts
    39
    Well, Thanks alot all , esp. Jonpalombi and JTCrosby

    It`s seem we already have a conclusion for "mix styled" sword

    Frankly, i don`t know about this sword , scabbard made of metal with ring , but have carving like Batak karo style, for me the hilt more likely from malay style and blade like europe blade

    I obtain this quite expensive , What a cost for learning

    Thanks again Kai for your email

    Rgds
    Jhony

  11. #11
    The metal scabbard with ring suspension mounts and a fin at the chape is very similar in design to a Japanese shin gunto scabbard. The difference is that this one has bone(?) mounts applied to the throat and the chape.

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