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Thread: Sword Knots

  1. #26
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    A very handsome looking silvered knot. I don't know offhand who would have used this particular knot but it looks perfectly original to me. It certainly has the look of a US officer knot.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  2. #27
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    I appreciate the look, George. It looks like this might not be as easy as I'd hoped...

  3. #28
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    Czech Sword Knot

    Gents,

    I picked up an interesting Czech sword knot at a militaria show this weekend and thought I would share it.

    The knot is made in the same form as other knots from the old Austo-Hungarian Empire and I first thought it was an Austrian knot until I picked it up and looked more closely. The bullion Czech lion is worked on both sides of the stem of this knot.

    It now resides on my Czech Gendarmerie sword.

    George
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    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  4. #29
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    Hi Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Cloke View Post
    I have a page with the various British pattern knots on my site if anyone is interested.....

    http://www.oldswords.com/resources/swordKnots.php
    I have registered in your site, but i can't find the page with the sword knots.
    Can you please help how to do it ?
    Thanks
    Fernando

  5. #30
    Make sure you are logged in and go to the resources section.

    Jonathan

  6. #31
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    Thank you Joanathan,

    Quote Originally Posted by J.G. Hopkins View Post
    Make sure you are logged in and go to the resources section.

    Jonathan
    It worked. But no satisfactory results, though.
    Firstly, the page only lists descriptions, not supported by illustrations, nor in which sword pattern/s they were used.
    Secondly, i am after a plain troopers 1796 (heavy) cavalry sword knot, and i guess there are only (officers) dress coloured knots in the listings.
    The sword knot i am investigating is a plain style, with the strap and tassel in colourless (?) buff leather.
    My problem is that, at a certain stage, this model evolved in one with the same aspect but with a brass button ... so it seems.
    My question is when this alteration took place, so that i can narrow the age estimation of a sword i have just acquired, with the said knot.
    I would be thankfull for your or anybody's help.
    Fernando

  7. #32
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    Thank you Peter,
    I saw those ... and that's precisely my drama.
    If you notice, one example has a brass button and the other hasn't.
    And in Military Heritage they pretend that the brass button appeared in 1822, mentioning that such button was meant for an adjusting purpose.
    Well it happens that my sword knot has a brass button but only one hole to fit in and close the strap, not for adjusting. Are they referring to the same sword knot, the adjusting term being a figure of speech ?
    And is it an evidenced fact that this modification actualy took place in 1822 ? In that case i would have to reconsider the estimated age of my sword, which i thought has entered Portugal for the Peninsular War (1808-1814).
    The sword in question is a 'mismatch', composed of a sword made by 'I Gill' and a scabbard made by Osborn & Gunby Birminghman
    Further coments wil be much apreciated.
    Fernando
    Last edited by fernando viana; 03-10-2009 at 05:47 PM. Reason: spell

  8. #33
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    ah ...

    Quote Originally Posted by fernando viana View Post
    Thank you Peter,
    I saw those ... and that's precisely my drama.
    If you notice, one example has a brass button and the other hasn't.
    And in Military Heritage they pretend that the brass button appeared in 1822, mentioning that such button was meant for an adjusting purpose.
    Well it happens that my sword knot has a brass button but only one hole to fit in and close the strap, not for adjusting. Are they referring to the same sword knot, the adjusting term being a figure of speech .....
    Okay you've got me there .....! I would be more inclined to believe the authenticity of born2late as they are British and the sword is a British one.

    I purchase knots from Thin Red Line:

    http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~th...ttasselend.htm

    .... but then I'm more in to the Victorian rather than Napoleonic era.

    I don't know for sure if the stud is actually Napoleonic, but I would say born2late must have a fairly good idea.

    Regarding one hole ... well simply make another! At the end of the day, the knot was intended to be functional, simply limiting it to one hole (where the knot was actually intended to be adjustable) does not make sense ...?

    Kind regards,

  9. #34
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    Thanks for the hint Peter,i will try and contact born2late.
    The adjusting thing was in order to confirm if it is the same version as mine, for ID and age purposes only. I am not intending to add holes to mine, just to make the adjustment make sense . After all, it's a device with aprox. two centuries and in a very bad shape.

    Fernando
    Last edited by fernando viana; 03-10-2009 at 06:11 PM.

  10. #35

    French Sword knot and Field Service Cover

    Hello George,
    An excellent idea for a thread as there is so much to learn when it comes to accoutrements.The attached photos are of a standard French cavalry trooper's sabre circa 1874,in nice condition and with its original field service scabbard cover and sword knot.The cover is made of soft cotton and leather while the knot is strongly made of thick leather.
    Cheers,
    Alan Simpson
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  11. #36
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    Alan,

    Thanks for showing your French sword accouterments. I have seen the canvas and leather (and all leather) sword covers for Japanese swords but never a French cover. A very neat outfit!

    George
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  12. #37
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    Hi Peter,

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Busch View Post
    ...I don't know for sure if the stud is actually Napoleonic, but I would say born2late must have a fairly good idea ...
    That was an excelent sugestion. Yaron was kind enough to have already filled me in this sword knot subject.
    I fact, the button has been there all time; the 1822 evolution appears to be a fantasy.
    Fernando

    .
    Last edited by fernando viana; 03-12-2009 at 11:51 AM. Reason: spell

  13. #38
    I have just purchased a replica/new " Prussian Imperial German style" sword knot.
    To be frank, I chose it because I liked the colors. I have a about 3 different German swords that I thought it would look good on. But out of curiousity I wondered if anyone knew what it might be as far as military designation, if it even has one. Regardless, I like it anyway. The colors on the strap are green and red, the tassle is red and black.

    Thanks,
    Morgan
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    Last edited by morgan butler; 10-09-2009 at 02:58 PM.
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  14. #39
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    Smile My guess

    Wuertemburg, Uebersturmstrassenputzer....

    Seriously, Looks like a "Swaebishe Offiziere" to me.

    Dale

  15. #40
    I like the first designation better!
    Peace, Love, SWORDS!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Martin View Post
    Wuertemburg, Uebersturmstrassenputzer....

    Seriously, Looks like a "Swaebishe Offiziere" to me.

    Dale
    Yeah, sounds like a winner designation to me!

    Morgan, it is not really anything but German "Nationale" knots were red/white/black color combinations as were some Württemberg knots. The different color stripes on the lower ball are typical of NCO ranks and some lower Officials (Beamte). So, I would say put it where you want it but it might make more sense with Civil Service swords or swords such a Colonial Service or even a Württemberg sword.
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  17. #42
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    George:

    Any guesses as to what this [presumably] Prussian portapee tells us? It's all gold or brass wire, including the wires woven into the holes in the strap; no other colors involved.
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    Last edited by Mark Cain; 09-03-2010 at 01:32 PM.

  18. #43
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    Mark,

    These are always a bit tough because of the variety of these gold Portepee styles. My initial impression is that it is a "Beamte Portepee" for a civilian official rather than a military officer. These knots were gold colored and could have gold wire straps or leather straps where military officer knots were normally made of silver colored wire.

    It looks like a nice Imperial period knot.

    George
    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  19. #44
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    George:
    You pointed me to this thread about Sword knots, and so I will post a photo of one of the Civil War Sword Knots I bought from from Bannermans in about 1954 for the large sum of 25 cents. I actually bought three, and they are all the same. Later I bought amother one of a different style with a small loop with a stud to hold it on the Guard Bow. I will post a photo of it later.
    I also got permission from my friend Roger Bender of Bender Publishing to scan some photos of German Knots in color. The book "History of the German Bayonet 1919-1945" is out of print now, but it is a great book for those who collect German Bayonets, and it shows a lot on Bayont Knots. I will add them to this thread as soon as I scan them.
    I have a Japanese Sword Knot which came on my Japanese Cavalry Saber, and another one on a Japanese NCO Sword that is all fabric material like a ribbon, with a double tassle.
    Roy
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  20. #45
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    Roy,

    This beefy Civil War enlisted sword knot is just about impossible to find nowadays. Well worth the .25 cents you paid for it. Below is the same knot you show that is also made by Gaylord. Sorry the pictures are not very good. Alongside is a variation knot with a smaller braided turks head crown. This one is unmarked but it is an interesting US Civil War variation on the theme.

    Also, thanks for the kudos on "Seitengewehr: History of the German Bayonet 1919-1945". I wrote it.

    I look forward to seeing your other knots. I am really a sucker for these things.

    George
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    "You can't please everyone, so you have to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

  21. #46
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    George, Stupid Me!!!

    I didn't even look at the Authors name when I pulled the book from my library. I have Book Number 5, signed by you. In Fact, I own every book that Roger has published, and ALL but one is numbered and Autographed. This is over 100 books, of very high quality.

    I will take photos of the other style knot that I got from Bannermans in next few days. It is the style with the small loop on the mounting end held on by a small stud. This loop is just large enough to go around the knucle bow to attach it to the saber. I think you will like it.

    The Knot on my Japanese Cavalry Saber has a buckle and tongue at the saber hilt end for attaching to the saber.

    I will send you a message on your personal Profile sight, and maybe we can communicate by phone.

    I will also photograph my Frogs, and see what I can do about starting a new thread on Frogs.

    Roy

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Hamilton View Post
    Sword Knots I bought from from Bannermans in about 1954 for the large sum of 25 cents. I actually bought three, and they are all the same.
    I also have a Gaylord knot, but unfortunately I paid somewhat more than 25 cents for it...



    Later I bought amother one of a different style with a small loop with a stud to hold it on the Guard Bow.
    If you're talking about one like below, this was the regulation attachment method for the M1885, M1902 and M1913 knots.

  23. #48
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    Yes Sean,
    My Saber Knot is of that style, but has seen conciderable use. It is on my 1872 Cavalry Officers Saber, which was made in France. I find most items that can deteriorate, and fall apart, bring much higher prices these days. I bought a Civil War Surplus Union Back Pack made of tarred linen with leather straps from Bannermans for 30 cents, and except for a couple of small leather straps coming apart it is still like new. It has 1864 inspectors stamps in the leather shoulder straps. I have had it packed away since I bought it in approximately 1954, no I am trying to figure out just how I am going to display it. One of my prides, that I bought from Bannerman is a Hardee Hat with Cavalry crossed swords, and Yellow Cords, It is in like new condition, along with its plume. These were just $1.50, and I bought two, but later traded one for a Japanese helmet. I would much rather have the Hat today, but I still have the Helmet.
    I will photograph the rest of my knots in a few days, and my frogs at the same time.
    Roy

  24. #49
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    I forgot to add the link below to a great website which has thousands of Old Photos, many of which are military dating from the Civil War up. The photos are in catagories such as Military- Civil War etc. The one I am sending which is shown in the link shows a good photo of a General Officers Sword Knot. There are lots of photos of Soldiers with swords, but it takes many hours as you go through the different photos.
    Enjoy,
    Roy

    http://www.old-picture.com/american-...-Major-012.htm

  25. #50
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    And also a slight aside for those that collect equipment as well is the Musgrave Patent Holster and drinking cup from the same period.
    I've repeated the Musgrave Knot for good measure even though I've put it in higher up this thread as the records show officers bought BOTH together (anything for an easy life I suppose!).
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    Last edited by Robert Wilkinson-Latham; 11-14-2012 at 01:49 AM.

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