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Thread: Cheness Kaze polishing

  1. #1

    Cheness Kaze polishing

    Anyone know how to further polish the Cheness Kaze using hazuya, jizuya, and nugui? What nugui works best on the Kaze?
    (some links would be very helpful) Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Järvenpää, Finland
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    I'm gonna make a guess, but I would assume that you need to re-finish shitaji-togi before moving onto hazuya, given how.. modest *coughcrappycough* Cheness' basic polish is.

    Which model was Kaze, folded or non-folded?
    Certified nerd; if you need an Excel sheet or an AutoCAD drawing done, just drop me a PM!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Costa Mesa, CA
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    The Kaze is 9260 mono steel without me actually checking.

    The thing about Hazuya and Jizuya is that it will not work on all steels. Modern alloys react in significantly different ways when it comes to polishing stones. Many modern day Japanese togoshi will not work with anything other than blades made from Tamahagane since they have settled on a blade composition they like.

    I've polished some modern steels using hazuya and jizuya, with mixed results. Hazuya and Jizuya have different hardnesses themselves, and you have to play around until you find one that seems to work best on a blade like on this one I did a few months ago.



    Jizuya will be unnecessary I believe as its main purpose is to polish visible folds in the steel. Nugui probably won't do much either. Research "hybrid polishing" it's probably a much better solution.
    Every time I put on a suit for a wedding or other event, I feel like I'm wearing optimal clothing for an epic fight scene...

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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    North Jersey
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    915

    Polish

    Ill'e agree with Aaron on this one,the time spent vs the the results is the way i will put it.I will go though the effort of a traditional polish even with Showato (on what i assume to be a better quality blade)only to find above the nice hamone,there may be a sonobe formed blade but no hada(forged mill steel)I have a couple that are folded but oil tempered.Even mill steel and water tempered,sometimes you cant tell untill you polish them.The chance i take(I always enjoy something popping up that you wont expect)
    As far as the "Cheness monosteel"blade is concerned,Aarons suggestion about the Hybrid polish(just getting the Ha to contrast against the Ji uniformly)may be a good start.
    This is a good quality Showato i am working on,still have to do the second burnishing,and if you see the dishes in the sink, its because i just found out the two quartz trak lights above the sink prvide some of my best light.A good,solid sonobe formed blade with something other than the standard Showato midare hamone,but no decernable hada.By contrast,a Koto wak that i used Kannahada nugui on(to harsh and wiped out the hada)and later used a wash of the hato that was removed after the wrinsing it off the blade during the prossess,drying and filtering it as you would do nugui,(pressing it through filter paper,onto the blade with oil) and rubbing as with kannahada.More time consuming,but for older blades,will show the hada better
    Greg
    Greg
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  5. #5

    sandpaper?

    anyone know where I can get the equipments for hybrid polishing?

  6. #6
    Home Depot for the lower grits, an Auto-Body shop for the higher grits.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    3
    Hi guys,

    I'm currently attempting my first polish on a non traditionally made Gunto. It was pitted and tarnished, the shinogi was rounded off plus I think someone went over it with wire wool or similar in the past.

    The foundation polish with wet stones worked well and so did the next step with wet and dry paper up to 2000 grit. However, I've now started using hazuya finger stones and they are scratching the hamon and turning the ji a light grey colour . It looks awful and I'm thinking I'll have to go back and start again with 1000 grit.

    What's going wrong here?

    I'm aiming for the type of finish that Greg achieved, i.e. dark grey ji and a lighter hamon but I'm not sure what type of nugui is going to work or if it will work at all.

    Thanks
    Ben
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    West Yorkshire, England.
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    I was following a thread on the polishing of Shin Gunto, and one contributor mentioned that back in the day the non-trad were often finished with an acid treatment.... Cider vinegar apparently. Not a problem for mono-steels, aka homogeneous steels, but don't try it with a folded or laminated blade.... There is a risk of the acid following poor welds and damaging the blade.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    3
    Preview

    Hi David, I'm positive that wartime Japanese polishers used all manor of acidic solutions to enhance and whiten the hamon but that's not really what I'm concerned with at the moment.

    I'm just trying to darken the hada as Greg has done but no matter what I try, it wants to remain a lighter colour than the hamon.

    Just out of pure luck, I stumbled on these modern made swords and it immediately struck me that the polish looks similar.

    GEISHA’S BLADE REAL “HADA” (T10 ELITE SERIES)
    From their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/geishasblad...142535/?type=3
    "the Wariha Tetsu method of forging a blade is a very uncommon lamination which inserts a very hard layer of steel (T10 tungsten tool steel) for the cutting edge, into a medium, more flexible steel (1060 carbon steel) body"

    Well, this blade looks exactly how my Gunto is reacting to polishing, i.e. the hada wants to remain whiter than the hamon.

    All very confusing!
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    3
    Guys, any idea why when I try to edit my posts, the text box appears blank?

  11. #11
    Most polishers hate giving up their secrets. That said, the difference between an amateur and professional polish is quite dramatic. Even after polishing a number of blades, my polish pales in comparison to pros like Chris Osbourne. Unless you're willing to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on polishing stones and equipment and put the time in, your best bet is to use sandpaper, then acid. I like lemon juice meself. I'll tell you how it was told to me. Remember though... it takes practice, so be patient with yourself.

    Acid acts quickly, so you should practice a little with using it before doing a full blade.
    Clean off the hazuya/jizuya residue with sandpaper first. Get the scratches out, because after you've done the acid, you can't go back and get scratches out. Unless you want to strip the whole blade again.
    Tape the shinogi with clear tape. You want the contrast between shinogi and ji.

    Warm up some some lemon juice in a small pot. Add some dish soap to bring the acidity down (A good dallop or two).
    Once acid mix is warmed up, use cotton balls or something similar that is clean to apply acid. Do one side at a time, the whole side, and be careful to not spill over to the other side while applying. once you get the color and contrast that you want. Wash off acid. Use a baking soda plus water mix to null the acid.

    Apply to both sides till you get an even look. Be patient and thorough.

    Like I said, it takes practice, but it's the fastest way to get the contrast you're looking for.

    Cheers,

    Kris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1
    One Hybrid Polish is explained here


    http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/hybridpolish.htm
    Good Luck
    saikatana

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