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Thread: Need of help on Afghan Jezaïl

  1. #1
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    Need of help on Afghan Jezaïl

    Hello.

    Here is a Afghan Jezaïl. On the silexlock, are stamped the logo of the United East India Cie (VEIC) with the datation 1791 and the word IODER.
    Can someone tell me what IODER means?

    The barrel (obviously having some age) is round, then octogonal, then round again with a tuliped mouth. At the opposite side of the lock, there is a short marking that seems in arabic characters.

    Can someone tell me what it means?.

    The appropriate pics are on http://blade.japet.com/B-afghan.htm

    Thanks for your help.
    Louis-Pierre
    LPCA

  2. #2
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    lock

    The EIC locks got reused on many eastern firearms. It would have been apart of a Windus Pattern Brown Bess musket or perhaps a pistol lock originally. The IODER is the British maker of the lock. You are just seeing part of the mark I think. I'd have to look up the lock makers active for the EIC trade in 1791. Post some photos of the lock and I can help better.

    Shawn

  3. #3
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    Hello, Shawn and thanks for your help. I shall post today better closer pics of this lock... never easy to catch.
    See U.
    Louis-Pierre
    LPCA

  4. #4
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    Here is a better pic of the EIC lock.

    You can see better IODER and above, the crowned 1.

    Thanks a lot for your interest.
    Louis-Pierre
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    LPCA

  5. #5
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    lock

    No question it is an EIC lock. I also think IODER is the complete name, I don't think anything is missing. Unfortunately IODER doesn't show up in my texts. Your lock fits into a hole in my reference books. I have the list of part supplies from 1807 forward. In the period your lock was made the EIC was contracting with setters up to provide muskets. The setters up often didn't manufacture all the parts, but subcontracted it out. IODER doesn't show up on the setters up list either. You need a list of British gunmakers from this period, there are some books that have this information. There is no doubt though that your lock was originally made in England by IODER and would have been part of a Windus Pattern musket supplied to the EIC on contract.

    Shawn

  6. #6
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    Shawn, thanks a lot for your precious help even if IODER does not appear on your list. I retain the fact that it is the craftman's name.
    I do agree with you on Brown Bess as this musket was the one of EIC troops.
    No surprise to find it on an Afghan Jezaïl. Surely a spoil of war.... maybe catched during the first anglo-Afghan war (circa 1815).
    I have another Afghan Jezaïl with the same lock, but with a lion logo (which appeared in replacement of the heart circa 1815 too).
    Thanks again

    Louis-Pierre
    LPCA

  7. #7
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    My opinion is that this was a trade lock, or a locally-made lock, with the added markings made to resemble the EIC logo, as a sign of quality. Not an unknown fact that the EIC and TOWER marks were often copied by the native craftsmen. Photo of the inside of the lock might help.

  8. #8
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    lock

    Dmitry,

    Normally on these guns you see EIC locks that are spurious. Just as you said. The vast majority that I see have spurious marks. However, I don't think this is one of them. The engraving style on the tail of the lock, the maker name stamp, and the inspection stamp all look spot on to me. The lock has been modified, the screw holding the cock is not original to the lock and I bet there are more repairs when seen from the inside. I agree a photo of the inside of the lock would be helpful.

    Shawn

  9. #9
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    Hi, Dmitri & Shawn.

    You are right for the other side pics.
    So, here they are.
    I cleaned the mecanism when i bought the musket with a light acid.
    No mark on this side.
    Hope that can help.

    Louis-Pierre
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    LPCA

  10. #10
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    back of lock

    Wow, not much original left of the back side at all. I'd say they just reused the plate and cock, perhaps the tumbler. Gives more credence to Dmitry's comment that it was all locally made. I still think the plate is original, but so many replacement parts really put it in question.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Gibson View Post
    Wow, not much original left of the back side at all.
    Being a little too genereous there, Shawn.

  12. #12
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    If you search on the web for Darra Afridis/ Adam Khel in Pakistan you will find that they have been well known gun and weapons manufacturers for a long time and you will see some really neat things... like scratch built AK-47 and 1911s

    I have personnaly seen many different types of copies to include home made martini henry, tule berdans, styers, mausers even one with double triggers and heavy machine guns... You can ask just about any Soldier / Marine about the bazaars...
    Let me look, I took some pics of the bazaar in Bagram AFB even sent home a rather nice Martini Henry in cal .303 (which was probably made in Afghanistan or Pakistan).
    Last edited by Christopher Treichel; 03-31-2009 at 02:07 PM.
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

  13. #13
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    some pics from Bagram... in the back row you can make out the butstocks of three jezzails... don't have any other pics of them.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "Please look in the encyclopedia and make a brief memorandum for me concerning the life of Correggio."
    Elbert Hubbard

    Nakamura Ryu Batto Do, Order of Seven Hearts

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